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The pope on income re-distribution
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nail_Ponder wrote:
Nope, but actions speak louder than words my friend.
If you were the head of a large school and it was known that a percentage of the faculty were molesting children would you not terminate them instantly and bring them to justice? I sure as hell would.

Now, if you were that head of the school, and you did little to nothing to address that heinous crime, do you think your inability to reprimand such deviants would suggest that openly condone those actions?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing as both you and Isobars have just demonstrated.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
Nail_Ponder wrote:
Nope, but actions speak louder than words my friend.
If you were the head of a large school and it was known that a percentage of the faculty were molesting children would you not terminate them instantly and bring them to justice? I sure as hell would.

Now, if you were that head of the school, and you did little to nothing to address that heinous crime, do you think your inability to reprimand such deviants would suggest that openly condone those actions?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing as both you and Isobars have just demonstrated.


OK then, enlighten us to the great strides that the pope has made in combating this problem. Let's see the specific examples of those that have been brought to justice with criminal charges. Talk is cheap.

My favorite move is when the slew of lawsuits hit the fan that the church files for bankruptcy. How honorable is that? Nothing like hiding behind Vatican immunity to give victims the warm and fuzzies. Think of Christ's reaction to the money changers in the temple. Can you imagine the reaction to the homosexual child molesters and abusers?

A "dangerous thing" are those who actually believe that ample effort has been directed towards such an issue. So I'll ask again, if you became the head of a large school and members of the faculty were known to be molesting children, would your first order of business be to remove those teachers and bring them to justice?

Maybe the more direct approach would be to fasten a millstone around the offenders necks and toss them into the sea? Hmmm, where have I heard that one before.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your disdain for the Catholic Church is clear. You choose to relentlessly focus upon a tiny minority within the church who engaged in despicable activities, mostly decades ago, rather than considering the hundreds of millions of lives that have been improved by the overwhelming majority within that church. You accuse Pope Francis of openly supporting pedophilia without presenting a shred of evidence, yet demand that I provide proof that you are wrong. I have no intention of playing that game. Rather than wasting your time in sophomoric exchanges with the dyslexic el Guapo, you may wish to reflect upon the validity of your deep seated prejudices.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick your head in the sand or google it yourself. There's hours of reading if you like. I will agree with you on some of your statements about the good that has come from the church.

Anyway, who cares? It's time to load up and head to OBX for the AWT! Check out that forecast!!!!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
[nail-ponder] accuse Pope Francis of openly supporting pedophilia ... deep seated prejudices.

prejudice:
Definition: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
Implication: that it's irrational.

If, OTOH, one's opinion is based on observed and/or admitted facts, it is no longer prejudice, but instead a rational assessment. Its thoroughness and accuracy are another issue.

I gave my church its best shot. It failed to move me, then took small but distinctly negative steps as I've explained before. None of us is saying the RC is bad to the bone or on balance, just that it has BIG, bad, and sometimes awful, warts. Considering the impact of pedophilia, anyone who could stop it but does not is de facto supporting it, IMO. If Mother Theresa or Billy Graham had been caught molesting children, s/he should have been cast out of the church just for starters, THEN punished severely and publicly regardless of the good they did when not destroying children's lives.

I have no idea what this pope has done to stop pedophilia. But given his promotion of absolution for abortion, of all things, just because someone utters the right words, he is telling the world that sin no longer matters, that mere words trump overt and deliberate actions no matter how heinous they are. That tenet has left a foul taste in my mouth for the RC for as long as I can remember, and he has ramped up that taste tenfold. And he compounds that by abusing his religious power and bully pulpit to decree scientific, economic, and lord knows what other mandates regarding quantifiable systems about which he knows squat. His ego makes Trump's look like overcooked rutabaga mush, and his influence mixes church and state inseparably.

That's not prejudice; it's an assessment.

Besides, if blindly and strictly following a religion's tenets is acceptable, ISIS and the Taliban are the good guys. Just ask them.
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jp5



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3394
Location: OnUr6

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess what Iso, when you go to church it's not all about YOU. Rolling Eyes
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
OTOH, one's opinion is based on observed and/or admitted facts, it is no longer prejudice, but instead a rational assessment................I have no idea what this pope has done to stop pedophilia.

Thank you for reinforcing my point.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would hate to be prejudiced. So please kind sir, let me drink from your fountain of knowledge and enlighten me. 😏
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with much of religion. However, there is no proof that Catholic clergy are any more likely to be abusers. Maybe less likely than the general population. The Church was late in addressing the abuse and there was coverup. This is unacceptable. But, Pope Francis is not the abuser in chief.

One of my brothers maintains his ties to the Church. His kids went to Church sponsored seminars in how to recognize inappropriate behavior.

NP. Has your church done that? Google pedophillia in other clergy and the general population. The Catholic Church may be safer than most places.

Isobars...again I am the last person to defend the church. But, you are way off base with your understanding of confession. Any of us who were raised Catholic know you don't sin because you can write it off later.

It is about time the Catholic Church became more inclusive. But that is not the same as unconditional pardoning.

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Any of us who were raised Catholic know you don't sin because you can write it off later./

Tell it to the pope, but realize that he didn't say absolution is an excuse for sinning, just that if we DO sin, even very grievously, absolution is just a sincere-sounding apology away. WSJ, front page above the fold, a couple of weeks ago.

That implies that there are only two paths to hell:
1. Fail to confess after sinning, or
2. Not be a Catholic.
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