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The pope on income re-distribution
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2541

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop giving yuppie owners a $7,500 tax refund to look cool. That should cover it. No bureaucrats needed. No additional costs added to every item delivered by truck or FEDEX. No additional cost for people forced to live miles from their jobs by high housing costs.........etc, etc.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably correct on the tax credit for the electric cars.

However, the fact remains that we have spent, directly, more than 1/2 a trillion more than we have collected on transportation. Indirect costs, such as wars in the mid-East, add to that number. Yet, we have not increased taxes on fuel in over 20 years at the Federal level.

Cheap fuel and easy federal highway funds (borrowed from our children BTW) to improve roads has contributed to urban sprawl and increased fuel consumption, water consumption, utility distribution and emergency service costs. Not to mention the bureaucratic and maintenance efforts involved. All these cost your commuter plenty.

If we really wanted to look out for that guy, we would take those tax dollars and use it encourage higher density infill development and efficient public transportation rather than build the roads!

We create an unsustainable situation and then enable it by claiming we will hurt those that we have trapped if we do not extend it.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

California would finally be able to get rid of our two liberal senators if they passed a mileage tax. I hope they do. The immigrants in LA would be rioting.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2541

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB, Don't disagree with anything you say. However, introducing yet another nickel and dime tax with the inevitable inefficient bureaucracy is not the way to go in my view. I would much prefer this ever expanding multitude of stealth taxes and fees, which now seem to infest every transaction we complete, consolidated into much fewer taxes so that taxpayers can better understand the true cost of government. I don't think many would be too happy with that consolidated picture.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrgybe

IF this is just an excuse to raise taxes, I agree. Most of us have lost faith in the government's ability to spend tax dollars wisely. But, IF road taxes were used ONLY to support roads and NO other funding was used I wonder if the consumer would not learn that this is a user fee, and not a tax. The alternative to the mileage tax is a greater increase in fuel taxes to offset the lost revenue of more efficient transportation.

I, also, have a creepy feeling that my driving habits, or even driving history, could be monitored. Not that anyone would care. When I throw the gear on the roof of my Cruiser and head out to the backroads of Utah with wife and dog, I still get a sense of freedom that might be tarnished with a gps recorder hooked to a satellite!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13799

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair Tax. Only politicians have a reason to dislike it, which, in addition to extremely extensive impartial research, implies it's a good thing.

It sounds like many people are not aware that their cars and cell phones already log MANY parameters of their travels, including location, speed, and MUCH more. Very few car makers resist pressure to do that in the interest of "The Children", or "public safety", or whatever excuse their government thinks up next.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3472
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
Its a great idea...you want less of something? Tax it!!! I spend a lot of time in traffic. If you tax people for driving , it will reduce traffic, and the time I save will equate to more work time, or windsurf time, both worth every penny of the tax.

It's a terrible idea that's full of holes. Pay by the mile? An eighteen wheeler pays the same tax as a Smart car if they travel the same distance? Boggsy travels 6 miles in an hour on clogged SF highways so pays a tenth of someone in the boonies who travels 60 miles in that same hour? Out of state traffic pays nothing? I most certainly don't want to pay for yet another bunch of bureaucrats to collect data on my travel habits. It's just another attempt to intrude into our lives.

Mr G.... A rural commuter would not get taxed the same. Only the clogged high use highways would be subject.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2541

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you just reinforced my point. A committee of bureaucrats would be formed to construct rules determining what a "rural" area is. People in those areas would be required to submit a lengthy application for review by more bureaucrats to gain an exemption. There would be hearings to wrestle with the cases of people who live in rural areas but commute to congested areas. Naturally, there would be an appeal process. People moving from urban to rural areas and vice versa would have to be reclassified by submitting the appropriate form with proof attached for review. There would be a special exemption process for people below the poverty level and for SEIU members..........and on and on and on.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3472
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it. Major commuter highways would have toll road status during commute hours. When your car hits those routes, your AppleStore account would automatically get hit with the appropriate tolls/tax. Once people realized that it costs money to clog up the roads, and keep me from working and making money, so I can pay more taxes, they would then adjust their lifestyles, which would unleash all kinds of productivity, which would more than pay for the new taxes.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1442

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how many billions must be spent to construct a system to collect mileage taxes? It would probably create hundreds/thousands of jobs that we would have to pay for via more taxes.

Toll roads? A significant number of the users in the states where I have lived don't pay when they get billed, with no system in place for collection.

Keep it simple - If electric or hybrid cars don't pay any or enough gas taxes, just take is when the car is sold as a road use tax (definitely no subsidies). Easy collection with little additional bureaucracy to manage it. The down side would be that the cost conscious driver would likely by a gas or diesel car with great mileage to avoid the point of sale road use tax on a hybrid or electric car.

Do you think any bureaucrat considered the down side of electric cars (no gas taxes) when they decided to offer subsidies to motivate buying? How can one NOT be a skeptic?
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