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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1323

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add to the advantage of weight point; when sailing on a fixed heading at that semi-planing gallumphging speed, a heavier board will have a steadier speed and course with less knocking about and need to keep making corrections (momentum, inertia, conservation of force, or whatever the correct term should be) giving it a smoother, more satisfying (to me) motion.

That also is physics, is it not!
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1930
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think you are partially correct, but not completely.

If the water's force on the board is enough to move the heavier board it will move the lighter board, but the inertia of the heavier board will keep it moving after the water's force stops. The lighter board has less mass and less inertia.

However, if the force of the water is not enough to really move the heavier board it could be enough to move the lighter board. In such a case, it might feel that the heavier board is more stable. But how often is that really the case? If we are sailing hulls designed primarily to sail in planing mode, they rarely exhibit stability just under the planing threshold. The force (lift) to rise over the bow wave to plane is pretty large, certainly about equal to the combined weight of you, the board and your rig. Incidentally, that's why pumping to a plane works but just hanging on and waiting for more wind rarely does.

The rig imparts force downward through the mast base. The lighter board's inertia is less and resists the downward force less than the higher inertial force of the the heavier model. This rig force a.k.a mast base pressure "damps" the lesser, upward force of the lighter board more than it damps the heavier board thus creating a more stable feel more often.

Again, the analogy of unsprung weight on a car applies. And John I. is correct. Light boards almost always are both light and stiff. Each contribute to an easier and more efficient ride in most conditions. I mean, there is a reason Mistral made the XR series and why slalom racers pay a lot for very light and stiff boards.

But, as you describe, there are certain conditions where a heavier board might feel better, but I suggest again those conditions or applications are extremely unique.

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spennie



Joined: 13 Oct 1995
Posts: 811
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Selling my 8-month-old, barely used Kona One, check the "longboard" ads.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1323

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As ever Dan, you explain things well.

I often ponder how wind powered sailors always seem to be hooked on some personal vision of sailing perfection. Longboarding for me, as a natural progression from extended sea kayak journeys, was always a chase after capturing those rare occasions (as you say) when you just hit it right! (Gallumphing island hopping.)

As with most yachtsmen and committed dinghy sailors it's what keeps us coming back for more, regardless of the setbacks. I've never yet met a keen sailor who will cease chasing his own personal Holy Grail.

One thing for sure; in my flotilla of eleven boards currently in use ( several more - forget how many without climbing up to count them - stored in the loft) there will always be a longboard or two. (The old Bamba in particular because it just occasionally can slot into that magic window which so far has eluded the Kona 1, good as it is.)

It's ultimately not about thrills; it's about wonderful memories of that salted sunburnt face and feeling of weary wellbeing after a perfect days cruise.

THAT, is longboarding!!
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bsangeor



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 145
Location: SE Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:

bsangeor, find me a better researched, more scientific article pertaining to our small, insignificant sport that better explains what's going on with our "vessels." i ain't got the time...



John,
Don't want to protract this discussion, but I'll clarify my point. Let's accept your reference as a definition of stability for a surfboard. By that definition, a surfboard has no stability at all, because the center of mass is always above the center of buoyancy, and thus no righting moment and no stability. That's all I was trying to say.

Brian
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bmoore98



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had my third outing on the CarbOne two days ago. Winds around 13 to 14 mph and I rigged a 9.5 Infinity. This was not much different from my last outing. I did once again compare it back to back with the Bic Techno Formula. The early planing threshold was similar with a 54 cm fin on the BTF but when I put a formula fin on the BTF it just pops right up and planes effortlessly. I did not have time to compare it to the Equipe carbon but will try next time. My favorite Kona rides happen when I'm well powered on 7.5 or 8.5 and we have rolling swells coming down the lake.

I did pay attention to the nose flex/oscillation and while the chop was not big I can say that this board is stiffer and the flex was not noticeable.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 409

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks bmoore98.

In search for better handling in chop, I tried a 28 on-shore wave (Makani Kaku) on my K1, instead of the normal 40 K1 freeride fin with a 6.0 sail in 20-30 kts wind. Boy, that's different! It's slower to plane for sure, but once on a plane, I was able to ride slowly and comfortably, or to push it and go faster. With the 40 fin, it's seems to always be full throttle (and bumpy). I thought it was a hull property, but fin plays a big role.

The board also required less force to footsteer, but I'm not sure at all it can turn faster. Hitting the chop in diagonal was also quite smoother. The board would bank by itself to conform to the chop, instead of bumping on it like it does with the longer fin.

Back to the CarbOne, bmoore98, do you feel it handles chop better than the K1, beeing lighter and stiffer? I volunteer to test it if you ship me your board! Laughing
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bmoore98



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still waiting for a good day with strong wind and bigger chop. I do have some fins I can play with as well. It's awfully cold here right now. We're spoiled with warm winters. I usually don't go sail if the air temp is below 50 unless I'm really desperate but I may have to lower my threshold this winter.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2393

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've sailed the carbone twice now. both times i've loved it. first time it was withj a 7.5 in wind up to 18 mph. second, with a 6.8 in 18-25 mph.

pops up on a plane quick, turns like the kona 11'5. with mast track and fin options, one can go crazy with rig options to suit nearly any flat water venue. surf app's may be out for 2 reasons: outboard foot straps only, and screwed in adjustable mast track.

for those that appreciate great performance long boards at a reasonable price, this is one fun alternative.

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