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Why We Should All Fear Government
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5778

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30, seems to me like you're kind of quick to blow off the New Yorker article. Why is that? Despite the ongoing battle of sorts between you and mac, I think that there's good reason to be open minded about some of the issues raised in the article. Do you really know that much about the ACA's impacts on small businesses? Honestly, I can't say that I do. Yet, you hang tough on shallow Republican talking points. I'm thinking that your stance is rooted in blind ideology and little else.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3520
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What an EPIC fail, hopefully this is the end of the Lipton party, what a joke.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304561004579137791687537388?mod=Opinion_newsreel_1
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1452

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easy to spin information to a desired outcome. Just doing a little research and looking at the impact of the ACA on all businesses can be a little more enlightening.

I found that 73% of all American workers are in businesses with more than 50 employees in 2011. These are the workers that must be covered by the ACA IF THEY WORK 30 HOURS OR MORE. To me, it seems that companies that are operating at a loss or on a tight budget would try to move as many workers to under 30 hours as possible to avoid paying for medical coverage. It's not just the companies hovering around the 50 employee number, it could be ALL companies with more than 50 employees. How many "ruthless" companies will be doing this?, who knows, but I bet most of them will investigate the possibility if profit margins aren't what they would like to see.

Just how big the impact of this will be is unknown, but the number of part time workers may be rising at an alarming rate. Time will tell.

I suspect that the government knows this and is anticipating a flood of people looking for insurance that will not qualify for assistance in order to keep the boat from sinking.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3520
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technoo....thats just not whats happening. In the Bay Area, home to 60% of the NASDAQ market , it is a death wish if a company discontinues its medical coverage....it comes down to competition. On paper it might seem plausible that businesses may try to avoid covering employees, but the market will dictate whether that is reality or not.
In regards to companies operating at a loss, or on a tight budget...well, Darwin tells me those businesses probably wont survive anyway.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4061

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
Technoo....thats just not whats happening. In the Bay Area, home to 60% of the NASDAQ market , it is a death wish if a company discontinues its medical coverage....it comes down to competition. On paper it might seem plausible that businesses may try to avoid covering employees, but the market will dictate whether that is reality or not.
In regards to companies operating at a loss, or on a tight budget...well, Darwin tells me those businesses probably wont survive anyway.


Those tech giants do have great pay and benefits. However over 90% of all new jobs under Obama are part time. More than likely the average pay of part timers is far below silicon valley. The small manufacturer, remodeler, bakery, or clothing store cannot afford Obama care. If they have over 50 employees many will either fail, or just not expand.

Can you find another reason un-employment is still so high and work participation so low?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3520
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes , Steve I can. During the boom years, we built 1,000,000 new homes a year, today we are building 400,000 a year, normal times about 650,000 a year. This is about 1.5% of GDP...our economy is remarkably attached to construction. Demographics also play a large role in the labor participation levels, but its primarily the loss of construction jobs, and the fact that the rest of world is passing us by. In Silicon Valley, the job market is white hot, but dont you dare show up without a solid resume, Rick Santorum be damned!!! Can you believe the crazy Rethugs actually toyed with the idea of nominating this cretin, AFTER he mocked Mr Obama for telling people to get a college degree.....crazy party you belong to man.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5146

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for NW:

Quote:
Bloomberg.com -- By Simon Lomax and Daniel Whitten

Sept. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Republicans are trying to block the Obama administration for a year from issuing regulations restricting carbon dioxide emissions from power plants, oil refineries and factories.

The threat of the Environmental Protection Agency regulating so-called greenhouse gases is being used as a “hammer” to pressure Congress to pass a national “cap- and- trade” program to restrict emissions, Senator Lisa Murkowski, an Alaska Republican on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, said in an interview.

The Supreme Court said in 2007 that the agency doesn’t have to wait for Congress to pass greenhouse gas laws and has the authority to regulate the emissions under the Clean Air Act. The agency has proposed rules for new cars and truck


Quote:
WASHINGTON — Senate Democrats blocked a Republican-backed move Wednesday to scrap EPA regulations on mercury and toxic chemical emissions from coal power plants, not swayed by the contention that the rules are killing jobs, not saving lives.

The measure, sponsored by Sen.James M. Inhofe(R-Okla.), failed, 53 to 46.

Picking an election-year fight over the wisdom of instituting new environmental regulations in a weak economy, Republicans argued that the rules would force older power plants to close, putting people out of work, and would drive up the cost of electricity.


If you want, I can tell you how many lives each measure would save. Oh, not interested eh.
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summertime



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stats in the article mac but nw 30 is right - it doesn't discuss the issue of hiring part timers and making more current job part time. The article says that 90 percent of small business already offer health insurance- that doesn't mean they have employees that actually qualify for it by being full time. In my place of employment which is a large corp. They are offering (optional) severance packages to some employees who currently get health insurance. We'll see but I bet they will be replaced with part timers. My brother also works for a large corp. and they hire mostly part timers to avoid paying for health ins. The bottom line is the bottom line and companies are gonna do what is cheaper- it's a business. I understand that. As for the need to offer good benefits to be competitive- yeah- maybe for google and twitter but other than that---no way. Maybe the top positions in a company but their aren't many of those.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4061

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly Summertime, Wages are still falling, employment stagnant, and far more part timers than we'd like.

BTW, Boggs, housing is on fire. My daughter bought a home up there 2 years ago and it's up 200k in value. Multi family is now priced above 2007. It should be a no brainer. There should be more jobs.

And, some of the most successful people I know, don't have college degrees.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5146

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Summertime--I agree that the move to part-time workers is a result of health care costs--but it has been going on since before I left the work force nearly nine years ago. So it is a trend that started before the ACA. There is no credible information that I've seen that the ACA has accelerated this trend.

The bigger picture, like it or not, is that the increases in health care costs, much more rapid than the increase in the CPI, were forcing changes in the hiring practices of both corporations with over 50 employees, and government at all levels. The point made well in the article, and ignored in the return to talking points by the right, is that the ACA creates a framework for pooling risks for smaller businesses. As such, it is a benefit to those businesses who want to, or need for competitive reasons, to provide health care. There is no requirement, despite the awfulizing.

There can be reasoned debate on whether the ACA will be effective in controlling costs, or about what more (or less) should be done, and the like. But to complain about Obama not being willing to negotiate on the ACA, after the GOP refused to negotiate and he kicked their butts, is a rare combination of political naiveté and sour grapes. With a little hostage taking mixed in.
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