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Why We Should All Fear Government
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, you're beginning to sound more and more like isobars. The sentence I quoted from isobars' posting about Larry Edelson, which was highlighted in bold by isobars to again push a ridiculous idea that he's tried to promote in the past. It was nonsense then, and it continues to be nonsense. Repeating it doesn't make it any more real or credible.

Don't you know when to draw the line on total BS? Apparently not. I'm thinking that you're attracted to the worst kind of wingnut goofiness out there just like a moth is attracted to light. On your part, it signifies kind of a mindless adherence and allegiance to utter nonsense. I find it unbelievable that you're so gullible and so easily taken in. Have you ever heard the phrase, "you are what you eat"?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4210

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler, I was very careful to point out, I am not a prepper. I just ask questions. Usually I find that some on the left and some on the right have meaningful and frequent positions that coincide. I mean, c'mon, even the government is telling us to prepare.

It seems they are making many choices that have annoyed the far right and the far left. And Obama has an approval ratio of G Bush at his lowest now. Clearly not only are his constituents disappointed, bitcoin buyers and other significant indicators are worried. So I just wonder why. I make business and life decisions by asking why. I'm curious for sure.

I would assume that bitcoin investors are very wealthy, and that they will lose badly in the end. If they are right, we will all lose badly in the end.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14308

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
I am not a prepper.

Nor I, but the most consistent general advice I'm seeing is that our primary money management objective should be to protect what wealth we have, not try to get rich off what might happen. i.e., the threat outweighs the opportunities. This fiscal house of cards/hot air balloon WILL collapse, and I don't plan to willingly risk money I NEED by leaving it vulnerable to that collapse.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did I discuss bitcoins? What I quoted was isobars' highlighted sentence about Washington's plans to confiscate and nationalize IRAs and 401(k)s. This isn't close to being the truth. Would you agree?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14308

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From http://calwatchdog.com/2012/11/30/the-govt-wants-your-401k-plan/ ,
FWIW:
<<< "The govt. wants your 401(k) plan"

November 30, 2012
Katy Grimes:
With the recent Democratic reelection win by the Obama administration, get ready for more than tax increases.

The government now wants your private 401(k) retirement plan. ”As Washington debates what to do about the fiscal cliff that it foolishly created, many potential sources of new revenue will be thrown on the table. One of them is likely to be 401(k) plans,” Investor’s Business Daily reported Thursday.

“many in Washington see our investment accounts not as the expressions of well-planned, disciplined decisions but as untapped reservoirs of wealth they can drain to fix the problems that they caused.” ... liberals in government say that these retirement accounts aren’t fair, and that they are the retirement plans of the wealthy.

Since first election Barack Obama, his government liberals have been saying that our 401(k) exist on the backs of the poor, as if they had all the money and it was stolen by the rest of us.

I have no doubt that a majority of the people who voted to reelect Obama will not have a problem with the government claiming ownership of Americans’ 401(k) plans. It’s the only fair way to level the playing field.

“But many in Washington see our investment accounts not as the expressions of well-planned, disciplined decisions but as untapped reservoirs of wealth they can drain to fix the problems that they caused,”

”The war on retirement, particularly 401(k)s, is quiet now. But that’s because it’s a cold war,” IBD said.

In 2008, Teresa Ghilarducci [whom I cited here years ago], an economist from the New School, first suggested to Congress the idea going after 401(k)s. One of California’s Congressmen, George Miller, a Democrat, loved the idea. ”George Miller, who runs a congressional committee, Democrat in California, came out with the first notion of just getting rid of your being able to deduct for your income your contribution to your 401(k)…” He said we have to eliminate the ’401(k) tax subsidy’ back in 2008,”.

“What we want to do, we want to take your 401(k) at its August level, before the crash. We’ll give you that equivalent and put it in your Social Security account, essentially, and we’re going to invest that money that we take from your retirement account, your 401(k), at its August level. We’re going to buy government bonds with it, which will guarantee you 3% — and then we will require that you put 5% of your pay into your 401(k) although it’s not yours anymore,” Ghilarducci said to Congress.

IBD warned that the hostilities might be closer than many of us think. “The American Society of Pension Professionals and Actuaries launched on Monday, according to Reuters, “a media campaign intended to educate U.S. employers and workers that the federal government might consider changing the tax benefits of retirement savings accounts.”

“A website set up by the ASPPA advises account holders to tell lawmakers to ‘keep their hands off your retirement savings’ and explains that ‘Congress needs to reduce the deficit, and part of deficit reduction will most likely be ‘tax reform’ that increases tax revenue’ — the strong suggestion being that Washington is coming after Americans’ 401(k)s,” IBD said.

Read more here: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112812-634984-401k-on-the-table-for-fiscal-cliff.htm?p=full

- See more at: http://calwatchdog.com/2012/11/30/the-govt-wants-your-401k-plan/#sthash.ZQH49CZV.dpuf >>>
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coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you should consult Factcheck on that, Mikey.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More nonsense doesn't change a thing. If changes to the law affecting 401ks and other retirement type accounts are proposed in the future, they have to be approved by Congress, and then approved by the president. That's pretty simple. Yet, taking what some folks might have proposed in the past, and subsequently bending it out of context, can't be taken for face value. Right wing media has a bad habit of twisting things up for weak minded fools to lap up and then stupidly spread. That kind of BS doesn't fool me for a second.
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 651
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
From http://calwatchdog.com/2012/11/30/the-govt-wants-your-401k-plan/ ,
FWIW:
<<< "The govt. wants your 401(k) plan"

November 30, 2012
Katy Grimes:
With the recent Democratic reelection win by the Obama administration, get ready for more than tax increases.

The government now wants your private 401(k) retirement plan. ”As Washington debates what to do about the fiscal cliff that it foolishly created, many potential sources of new revenue will be thrown on the table. One of them is likely to be 401(k) plans,” Investor’s Business Daily reported Thursday.

“many in Washington see our investment accounts not as the expressions of well-planned, disciplined decisions but as untapped reservoirs of wealth they can drain to fix the problems that they caused.” ... liberals in government say that these retirement accounts aren’t fair, and that they are the retirement plans of the wealthy.

Since first election Barack Obama, his government liberals have been saying that our 401(k) exist on the backs of the poor, as if they had all the money and it was stolen by the rest of us.

I have no doubt that a majority of the people who voted to reelect Obama will not have a problem with the government claiming ownership of Americans’ 401(k) plans. It’s the only fair way to level the playing field.

“But many in Washington see our investment accounts not as the expressions of well-planned, disciplined decisions but as untapped reservoirs of wealth they can drain to fix the problems that they caused,”

”The war on retirement, particularly 401(k)s, is quiet now. But that’s because it’s a cold war,” IBD said.

In 2008, Teresa Ghilarducci [whom I cited here years ago], an economist from the New School, first suggested to Congress the idea going after 401(k)s. One of California’s Congressmen, George Miller, a Democrat, loved the idea. ”George Miller, who runs a congressional committee, Democrat in California, came out with the first notion of just getting rid of your being able to deduct for your income your contribution to your 401(k)…” He said we have to eliminate the ’401(k) tax subsidy’ back in 2008,”.

“What we want to do, we want to take your 401(k) at its August level, before the crash. We’ll give you that equivalent and put it in your Social Security account, essentially, and we’re going to invest that money that we take from your retirement account, your 401(k), at its August level. We’re going to buy government bonds with it, which will guarantee you 3% — and then we will require that you put 5% of your pay into your 401(k) although it’s not yours anymore,” Ghilarducci said to Congress.

IBD warned that the hostilities might be closer than many of us think. “The American Society of Pension Professionals and Actuaries launched on Monday, according to Reuters, “a media campaign intended to educate U.S. employers and workers that the federal government might consider changing the tax benefits of retirement savings accounts.”

“A website set up by the ASPPA advises account holders to tell lawmakers to ‘keep their hands off your retirement savings’ and explains that ‘Congress needs to reduce the deficit, and part of deficit reduction will most likely be ‘tax reform’ that increases tax revenue’ — the strong suggestion being that Washington is coming after Americans’ 401(k)s,” IBD said.

Read more here: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112812-634984-401k-on-the-table-for-fiscal-cliff.htm?p=full

- See more at: http://calwatchdog.com/2012/11/30/the-govt-wants-your-401k-plan/#sthash.ZQH49CZV.dpuf >>>


Lots of innuendo and questions with few, if any, facts. It is the Glenn Beck school of "reporting". See a sample here, Eric Cartman as Glenn Beck, just asking questions. http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/255332/brave-enough-to-ask-questions

The serious side of this issue relates to reducing the deficit. Does anyone truly believe that the deficit will be reduced solely by reducing the size of government? Of course not, revenue will have to be generated via taxation. If the Republicans won't agree to raise income tax rates - to let's say Ronald Reagan rates - the money has to come from somewhere other than higher tax rates to reduce the deficit. Where? Perhaps by reducing the amount of non-taxable contributions to 401(k)'s Oh, by the way, the 401(k) you are clutching to is entirely a result of the IRS tax code. The tax man giveth, the tax man taketh.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3438

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW
I am curious if finding out that your source turned Ayers joke into lie by faking the editing made you no longer believe that source?
Or did it reinforce your belief that we know longer know what this Pres. Is thinking?

Did other fake writings like this one also lead you to that belief?
Second question Do you think it is funny that you provided an example of the Special Rules for Blaming Obama yourself?

C'mon say out loud
" this crap I read is a pack of lies but it fits my agenda and that is good enough for me. I even send this stuff out.When someone notices it is fake, I should just say I got fooled again and warn people away from my source."
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14308

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And endless stream of news reports contradict Factcheck's denial. Here's just one:
http://news.coinupdate.com/us-government-takes-two-more-steps-toward-nationalization-of-private-retirement-account-assets-0842/ ...
not to mention the WSJ and most other media ... easily arguably including her own testimony, which I read.

IMO it bears watching, considering the history of this administration and the presumed next Democrat candidate for president, Hillary "We're going to take things away from [the oil industry] on behalf of the common good" and " I want to take those profits" Clinton.

Similar evidence includes the eminent domain theft of private property for purely fiscal excuses never intended by the founding fathers.
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