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boardtrax



Joined: 27 Sep 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:59 am    Post subject: Beg-Intermediate question Reply with quote

Hey,

new to this forum, but been reading lots and find it extemely usefull!
so i figured i would ask for some advice.

so i have been riding a mistral comp sst 12ft 240L with a 6m2
i weigh about 195 lbs / 90 kg

i am at the stage where i can get in/out of the harness
get planning sometimes in 15-20 knots, trying to get back enough to get into the footstraps and really get some speed.

so my question is about mast placement, i read contradicting statements on this forum, mostly move mast back in high winds, but then sometimes move mast forward to get more mast base pressure and get planning.
can anyone explain? or give me tips?

now that i am trying to plane i need to lift my centreboard, and tips on getting upwind with the centreboard up?
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 416

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your board is a longboard with a mastrack. The mastrack allows much more adjustment than typical shortboard 8" mast box. The front part of the mastrack is to be used in non-planing condition, to optimize the glide without pearling the nose in the chop.

The back part of the track is for planing. I guess the back 10" are usefull for planing. When most people talk about front and back, they say it based on the 8-10" shortboard adjustment range.

To go as fast as possible, you want to put the mast back. This will get the board to ride more on it's tail, reducing the wetted area. If it's too far back, the board will be moving around and too hard to control.

With the mast forward (10" from back), the nose will ride lower. This creates less resistance when not planing, and I assume this is why this promotes earlier planing. On a plane, the wetted area is bigger with the mast forward. The board will ride slower and will be easier to control. If the nose is too low, it will catch the chop and you might fall! You will need to bring the mast back a bit. When you start using the straps, you will also figure out that you need to raise the boom with the mast forward, in order to keep everything balanced.

Unfortunately, I don't know well your board, If I was using it, I would try it with the mast 10" from the back, with the boom a bit high. If you always plane in front of both straps, this means you will have to bring the mast back to be able to get in the straps.

As far as going upwind off the plane, you are always better to use the centreboard. If you just want to regain terrain while waiting for the next puff, you can always put your weight on the windward rail, to depress it. This creates some sideways resistance, but way less efficient than the centerboard. If planing well powered in the straps, you need to put your weight forward and the sail backward a bit and well sheeted to make progress upwind.

Hope this helps.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2400

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mast base position will also effect your boom height relative to how far back you may wish to step on the board. as the base moves back, it will make the boom height more comfortable stepping into the back straps.
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rangerider



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tip for better upwind angle while planing. A mistake that I made early on and still make occasionally is to try to go upwind as soon as I'm on the plane. First get into an efficient, balanced position hooked-in and in the straps. Then build up speed. At higher speeds you can turn upwind and maintain a much better angle than if you try to turn upwind just after getting on-plane.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 688

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the board is probably so old the mast base and foot strap position will be different with modern sails as opposed to the sails of the boards era.
I would raise the boom way up to at least shoulder height (with the rig not attached to the board and standing upright on the grass you should be able to just get your arm over the boom so your arm pit is hooked over the boom) then try and sail as fast as you can really hanging off the harness, try and go for the front footstrap, if it's just too far back start moving the mast track backwards.
Of course you may discover at this time that the fin is too small.
Sails of this era were pointy at the top not square and had a much longer boom length meaning the mast track was much further forward if any of that makes sense.
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1073
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boardtrax-

Newer boards (late 1990s to the present) have mast tracks a lot further back overall than older boards (1980s - early 1990s). It's because the force from newer sails comes more from the front and lower half of the sail, so the whole sail needs to be further back on the board for force to line up with the resistance of the fin. If the sail force and the fin resistance don't line up you get a variety of awkward symptoms, including not being able to get in the back footstraps.

Your board is old, so unless your sail is also old, you'll need to be put the mast base as far back as it will possibly go. Of course even then it might be hard to get in the back footstraps, and you might have problems like the bottom of the sail rubbing the deck of the board.

The reason you put the boom high is so it won't be too low on you after you lean the sail back and move to the back of the board. If the boom is too low on you it's hard to transfer your weight to it, so you end up "heavy footed" and unable to plane.

To not lose ground against the wind when the centerboard is up you need to do a couple things. At slow speed, you need to tilt the board towards you a bit by putting weight on your heels, so the bottom of the board provides resistance. One you're going faster, though, you should level out the board because the faster water flow around the tail fin will help it provide enough resistance all by itself. Also, non-tilted board will plane much better.

Bigger tail fin will help you plane and maintain your ground against the wind without having to dig in the edge of the board.

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 1996

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boardtrax,
You should specify what sail you are using. Also, 15-20 knots is a large range and people tend to exaggerate the wind speed or leave out the gust factor. At your weight you could very likely be underpowered with the 6.0 making it harder to plane in the lighter winds.

Coachg
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boardtrax



Joined: 27 Sep 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey thanks everyone!

so ya im using an old longboard, mistal comp sst
and old sails that came with the board.

and when sailing in the 15-20 knots (avg), i only got planing a couple times, so i am pretty sure i was planing due to gusts which were probably at least 25 knots, i would guess
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having sailed an Exocet Pacer Hybrid board (with c/b) and an older Fanatic Megacat (both with modern sails), my experience is that it is waaay more efficient to use the centerboard to get upwind. It is actually quite fun, esp. in the moderate breezes that you are talking about as the board loads up and you can rail it up and actually stand on the windward rail and begin to plane on the leeward rail all while pointing as high as a good sailboat. (mast track forward or just back of forward).

then, when you have gotten well upwind, turn off wind (bring up c/b first), move mast track back, and blast off wind in straps. practice jibing as you broad reach downwind, then turn upwind, practice tacking, repeat, rinse, repeat.

great fun and great training for more high-performance sailing in the future.
this is, of course, IMO and based on several years of experience.
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geohaye



Joined: 03 Apr 2000
Posts: 1346

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advice here, and overall you definitely need to take your time and try various settings to see what works best. You can even go all scientific and use a tape measure and take notes on the various setups that you've tried, and what works best. Heck, I've done that myself and I'm not ashamed.
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