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Bay Area America's Cup
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rigatoni



Joined: 25 Feb 1999
Posts: 342

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please tell me why the cup coming back in 4 years would be the "worst" thing. Seems like other than a few people, most of the windsurfing and kitesurfing community has been thoroughly enjoying this event.

I sail Crissy Field and I am still looking for anyone who was at all adversely affected by the races or who might have lost any opportunity to get out on the water. The races were over at 2:45pm every day and if you wanted to sail before then TI was a short 25 minute ride away.
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aguasonic



Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Sherman Island, California

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"
Did you see Barker crying in the back of the Kiwi boat? At least that was a mostly Kiwi challenge.
"

Completely understandable -- he's only human, after all. Three times the wind gods interceded with the Kiwis ahead. Sometimes <far> ahead. If some committee a long time ago had agreed on a 45 minute race limit, instead of 40, the Cup would be in the Southern hemisphere today.

As it is half of "team USA" was either Kiwi or Aussie, so it was practically a race between two boats from Down Under, anyway. If you include Sir Ainslie, and realize they are all part of the Commonwealth, you have to wonder how the American got on the boat. :/

Having said that, *incredible* race.

Some photos at:

http://tinyurl.com/mtdgd3o

Mark
~~~~
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Riptide



Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigatoni wrote:
Please tell me why the cup coming back in 4 years would be the "worst" thing. Seems like other than a few people, most of the windsurfing and kitesurfing community has been thoroughly enjoying this event.

I sail Crissy Field and I am still looking for anyone who was at all adversely affected by the races or who might have lost any opportunity to get out on the water. The races were over at 2:45pm every day and if you wanted to sail before then TI was a short 25 minute ride away.



No way Rigatoni, for every fan, there were many more that just wanted it to go away.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5393

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to chime in in support of rigatoni here. We had a Cal Cup race, staged out of Crissy, on the last Saturday of the Louis Vuiton cup. There were parking spaces--in the front row--at 12:30. Throughout the series, the AC organizers put on events like moth demonstration races that showed the non-sailor the breadth of sailing. Most of those managed to communicate the excitement of the event and sailing in general. Many different people got to the San Francisco waterfront--where they will support it remaining public--without substantially interfering with windsurfing and kite-boarding access. It was, in my experience, no more crowded than the Big Boat series or one of the many events that the San Francisco Park District has to allow in order to keep the parks open in the first place. This is the post-Proposition 13 world.

It remains unclear whether the event was a boon to San Francisco from a revenue and cost perspective, and most City officials didn't much like talking with Ellison, much less negotiating with him. But there will be a pretty rigorous post-race accounting, and it will be used as a basis for negotiation for any future races.

Finally, as a windsurfer for 35 years, who raced for probably 20 or more of those years, the racing was sensational. The developmental boost that the AC races gave to foiling and multi-hulls was huge, and it will benefit many forms of windsurfing. The technological advances that allow us to look back at each race and, with excellent GPS data, look at time and distance results in terms of VMG up and down the course was key not only to Oracle's comeback, but to our understanding of what makes us fast. Watching the starts of the last four races, and seeing that the technology advances they made allowed them to add rapid acceleration to the bag of strategic tools in pre-race maneuvering was wonderful to see.
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usa4



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been around the sailing and windsurfing community for the last 25 years and have got to say this was the single greatest event that raised the profile for sailing in the US and the World. More people tuned in to watch the AC this year than all the previous events combined. What's good for sailing is good for the entire wind community- including windsurfing and kiteboarding!

It raised the bar for what sailing and sport can be in San Francisco. Sure, you might have been locked out of the parking lot a few afternoons but just because you come there every day doesn't mean you don't have to share. We are privileged to sail at such a great spot and blessed with wind almost 200 days a year. Be it dog walker, tourist or AC fan- the national park is there for everyone to enjoy. No one group has any greater right than any other.

The city reaped huge benefits from the additional infrastructure construction, tourist revenue and spotlight on the world scene. The AC event authority did more for sustainability for the city than has ever been done before for a sporting event. The AC Open highlighted several local classes- including windsurfing and kiteboarding competitions leading up to the AC finals. We now have a fleet of foiling kiteboards- do you think that would have been possible without the R&D from in the last several years from the AC?

By having the AC in SF this summer- we now have the opportunity to go to sponsors for future events because the ground work has been developed.

Thank you Mr Ellison for your commitment to sailing and San Francisco!
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MrFish



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it showed both the good and the bad of windsport racing.

On the one hand, people got to see how exhilarating windsports are. They don't have to be like 'watching paint dry'- and for many, this was the first time they could see that.

On the other hand, honestly the lasting image most people probably took from this was of a billionaire making his own rules, spending unlimited money and "winning" under his own terms. Pretty unsightly actually.

We have the same problem in Formula racing even, at least after the custom fins became needed to be competitive, it became a game of $$, on a much smaller scale of course.

Going forward, what billionaire will step up to play by Ellison's rules next time? And why should we care?
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 454

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrFish wrote:
I think it showed both the good and the bad of windsport racing.

On the one hand, people got to see how exhilarating windsports are. They don't have to be like 'watching paint dry'- and for many, this was the first time they could see that.

On the other hand, honestly the lasting image most people probably took from this was of a billionaire making his own rules, spending unlimited money and "winning" under his own terms. Pretty unsightly actually.

We have the same problem in Formula racing even, at least after the custom fins became needed to be competitive, it became a game of $$, on a much smaller scale of course.

Going forward, what billionaire will step up to play by Ellison's rules next time? And why should we care?

Good parallel, and sailing is expensive ... although the AC can dwarf almost anything else on the planet. Just to put things in perspective: combining the costs for the 4 entrants we are talking about something in between half and thee-quarter billion dollars to let Mr. Ellison put a Cup in his studio apartment in the Mission district.

As far as the imaginary benefits to the city: now that the promised 1.4 billion revenue never materialized, the organizers are talking about "image benefit", as if San Francisco needed the AC, with its comparatively speaking miniscule audience, to be known all over the planet.

But "image gains" of course cannot be quantified, and there is little point in discussing them. What can be quantified is the accounting. As we speak we (the city, the taxpayers) need to come up with more than $22,000,000 to pay for the costs of the race. Hopefully that will be reduced, but we'll see.
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allen



Joined: 13 Aug 1996
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in SF to watch the end of the Luis Vuitton cup and one long time resident told me that the city takes in $1m per min 24/7/365 in tourism money. I also spoke to an engineer (hydraulics guy from Italy) on Oracle's team who said that every time Ellison asked the city to help promote the event (like set up tents along the waterfront) all he ever got was a hard time. Considering the $1m a minute in general tourist revenue, it is likely the AC made a very small dent in overall dollars flowing into city. The Oracle engineer also said Ellison was looking into other venues for the event with San Diego a consideration.
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrFish wrote:
I think it showed both the good and the bad of windsport racing.

On the other hand, honestly the lasting image most people probably took from this was of a billionaire making his own rules, spending unlimited money and "winning" under his own terms. Pretty unsightly actually.

We have the same problem in Formula racing even, at least after the custom fins became needed to be competitive, it became a game of $$, on a much smaller scale of course.

Going forward, what billionaire will step up to play by Ellison's rules next time? And why should we care?


This is what the AC has always been. It has always been a game for the super wealthy, always will be. of course, the defenders make most of the rules. How do you think the NYYC held on to the cup for 132 years?

ETNZ had big support for the NZ government, which will probably not happen again. Imagine the US government supporting an AC team?

However, there is trickle down to all sailors. (Sailing is an activity for the affluent anyway, except possibly for windsurfing). After all Briggs Cunningham invented the cunningham for the AC which is used on all sailboat sails now. Also, separate keel/rudder hull designs, winch technology, etc. etc. all came from AC.

Exciting to watch, isn't it? I think so. I've been following the AC since probably the mid 60's and this was the best racing I remember seeing or reading about, except perhaps for '83 and '87.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 454

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allen wrote:
...I also spoke to an engineer (hydraulics guy from Italy) on Oracle's team who said that every time Ellison asked the city to help promote the event (like set up tents along the waterfront) all he ever got was a hard time. ...

I am afraid the engineer was just being a bit naive. What is missing in that narrative (the city, that is us, against the generous tycoon) is the original deal that Ellison almost pulled off.

It was a bit more than tents. In exchange of the 1.4 billions that the AC was supposed to bring to the city Ellison got a "midnight deal" (literally, it was approved by the outgoing major Gavin Newson): a 66 year free lease on Pier 80, 30-32, 26 and 28 as well as a lot across the Embarcadero to develop real estate. The deal was rescinded by the city in Feb 2012 after an uproar following disclosure of its details.
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