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Racism and America
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1859
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
In the over the top comments by Baja, RR, and NW, it is more interesting what is not said. First, surveys show that racial animosity remains an undercurrent in America, particularly in the South. People rarely use overtly racist terms like the "N" word, even in private, but many remain prejudice and aware of their biases. However, most people that hold such prejudices would not, at the end of the day, vote for or against a presidential candidate solely on that basis.

So the warring posts on this forum claim that their disagreement with Obama is based on policy rather than racism. Perhaps true; slurs like BB's "Obongo" are rare. On the other hand, while many conservatives on this forum say that they have the right to criticize Obama, that criticism is rarely specific, and almost never acknowledges the fact that many of the policies that they criticize were established by predecessor presidents. So much of the "criticism" consists of ad hominem attacks, which portray Obama as the "other" and unworthy of respect. Specific criticism, using moderate language and identifying alternative policies that they would favor, is rare--calling into question the lack of bias claimed by the attackers.

What is not so rare is the toleration of racism, both in the Republican Party, and in the conscious political messaging that the Party uses. While overt bigots in this country may only be 2 to 5% of the population, they lean predominately conservative--and the Republican Party knows that it cannot win without them. That means they tolerate the overt bigots, and with selected messages, appeal to them in order to galvanize them to vote.

This is apparent with the Willie Horton ads attacking Dukakis on behalf of Bush I (http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1842516_1842514_1842557,00.html), the Obama phone attacks posted here by those who claim they lack racial animus, or the anti-gay campaigns used by the Republicans to increase turnout in purple states.

It is ironic--irony clearly lost on the conservatives ranting above--that these campaign strategies all rely on hatred. Don't take my word for it, here's what the Bush-appointed judge said about Proposition 8 in California:

Quote:
Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California constitution the notion that opposite sex couples are superior to same sex couples.


This tolerance, and indeed rationalization shows up here. It has been said that bullies, when confronted with their behavior and its effects, claim that the bullied are just too sensitive. How that comment resonates in NW's comment that finding "Obango" offensive is not that it is offensive, but that those who are offended are just too sensitive. Wrong, NW, you are wrong to apologize for overt slurs. You are enabling the bigotry that persists in this country, whether you actively subscribe to it or not.


Tell that to A&E, they just blinked, so Phil Robertson is now welcomed back to the show.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/a-e-welcomes-phil-robertson-667647

I guess the commercial success out trumps any perceived racism or homophobia.

BTW, I've never mentioned "Obango" in anyway, good or bad, you're talking about somebody else.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5471

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't read real well do you. Nor stay on point. BB used the slur "Obongo", you said I was too sensitive. The trademark line of a bully.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1859
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Don't read real well do you. Nor stay on point. BB used the slur "Obongo", you said I was too sensitive. The trademark line of a bully.

Well then if you think I'm a bully, then I won't ask you to put a skirt on your last response.
BTW, I weigh 160 when wet, uuuuu, scary. Shocked

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5966

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers, feeling a bit sensitive? My apologies if my last post unsettled you, but quite honestly, you weren't the focus of my comments. I've been out of the loop for a few days, and my comments reflect on things said a bit earlier in the thread. Moreover, my comments were very general in nature, and didn't target any one person. Did I even use the word "hate" in those comments?

However, if you really believe that much of the crap here directed at President Obama is a simple difference of opinion of him or his policies, you must be conveniently looking the other way. Although I realize that your being Canadian makes you more of an outside party looking in on your neighbors to the south, for you to not recognize who's slinging the crap in commentary here about the Obama Administration, Democrats in Congress and liberals, you're clearly showing your political leanings and preferences. Mac's right about disdainful names used like Obongo. Thinking that amounts to a simple difference of opinion or policy is ludicrous.

Again, I'll repeat my final comment in my earlier post.

"You know, every time I ask about what the Republicans have to offer, and ask what's really there? It's all talk and no go. It's too easy to cast stones and pretend to be unaccountable."

Let's move beyond the disdainful Republican BS talking points and get to some real ideas.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1045

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sensitive, and the majority of that comment after quoting you wasn't aimed at you directly either. Sorry, not my intention. I'll actually agree with Mac's comments of my "over the top" responses, but I think my responses were justified given the accusations being made.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 995
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
Not sensitive, and the majority of that comment after quoting you wasn't aimed at you directly either. Sorry, not my intention. I'll actually agree with Mac's comments of my "over the top" responses, but I think my responses were justified given the accusations being made.



and my main point is I believe this profile is a similar rationalization process of terrorists like McVeigh, doctor shooters, killing liberal talk show hosts, church shooters, anthrax mailers and so on in the USA. They are all encouraged by the right wing hate media and for example this thread of so called right wing deniers that there is major racism in america, that the poor white guy is a victim of the world-media and the real racists are those who point it out. What a friggen crock of shiii---te. See the last paragraph of that group that backs up basically everything I contend. And I stick to my contention that derailing threads and trolling on subjects addressing the points with out facts is aiding and abedding the racists and terrorists, as well as not kicking them out of the party.

Macs 2-5 percent overt is not supported by anything I have ever seen, he generally supports his facts so well, but here i may have missed it I did not see it... As I keep posting the polls in one southern state it is 60% of the right wing who are shown to be racists by, who want a law to prevent interracial marriage. A law to put people in jail by 60% to me is overt racism.

your saying the southern poverty law is a hate group is also so rich in denial it is unreal. They are a fist class group to aid in exposing/stopping the hate groups. Here is the first page that i gave the link to.

Quote:
The Southern Poverty Law Center monitors hate groups and other extremists throughout the United States and exposes their activities to law enforcement agencies, the media and the public. We publish our investigative findings online, on our Hatewatch blog, and in the Intelligence Report, our award-winning quarterly journal. We’ve crippled some of the country’s most notorious hate groups by suing them for murders and other violent acts committed by their members.

Currently, there are 1,007 known hate groups operating across the country, including neo-Nazis, Klansmen, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, black separatists, border vigilantes and others.

neo nazis

Since 2000, the number of hate groups has increased by 67 percent. This surge has been fueled by anger and fear over the nation’s ailing economy, an influx of non-white immigrants, and the diminishing white majority, as symbolized by the election of the nation’s first African-American president.

These factors also are feeding a powerful resurgence of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement, which in the 1990s led to a string of domestic terrorist plots, including the Oklahoma City bombing. The number of Patriot groups, including armed militias, has grown 813 percent since Obama was elected – from 149 in 2008 to 1,360 in 2012.

This growth in extremism has been aided by mainstream media figures and politicians who have used their platforms to legitimize false propaganda about immigrants and other minorities and spread the kind of paranoid conspiracy theories on which militia groups thrive.

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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.


Last edited by bajaDean on Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1045

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"your saying the southern poverty law is a hate group is also so rich in denial it is unreal. They are a fist class group to aid in exposing/stopping the hate groups. Here is the first page that i gave the link to."

To be honest, I took one quick look at that website before and the graphic images on the home page and in my haste made a quick assumption it was one of your nutty tangental accusations. I'll retract in saying that I would get behind the cause of that website and do not find it is hateful but helpful in fighting hatred.




"This growth in extremism has been aided by mainstream media figures and politicians who have used their platforms to legitimize false propaganda about immigrants and other minorities and spread the kind of paranoid conspiracy theories on which militia groups thrive. "


I always find it interesting when people are so concerned or give so much clout to the opinion of celebrities. The whole Mexicans and the border thing is insane in my opinion. Talk about hard working, salt of the earth nice people, they've almost become the modern day American slaves. American's are talking out of their ass when they want to send them "back home" because I'm pretty sure W.A.S.P.-Y America couldn't get by without them at this point.






You plan on justifying any of your bizarre accusations of stalking, having pictures, being a racists etc, or are you planning on just continuing on the same path?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5471

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BD--I ask that you tone your responses to RR down. He is one of the more thoughtful on the forum, and brings a certain Canadian naivete in what he doesn't understand about America. Isobars is a true stalker, outing people by name with an implicit threat of violence. As was Yeehah, with the guns avatar.

Back to point. I didn't search for the 2-5% figure, but I know that I read it. The NW's miss the point completely. He takes great solace in not actively saying bigoted things--he is merely an enabler. Bigotry lite if you will.

The issue with the Republican Party, and supporters who enable subtle racism, is that they almost never speak up in opposition to those who speak with bias. Whether it is the Duck Dynasty fool, (how sad that NW finds his restoration to be good news), BB, or more overt statements of prejudice against women, Hispanics, African-Americans, or gays, there is tolerance rather than disapproval from the right. Equally bad is the willingness of the right, in their lust to return to power, to countenance policies that have disproportionately discriminatory effects. I don't believe that most of the party operatives in the Republican Party are trying to restrict voting rights because they hate black and brown people, or that they are trying to prevent voting fraud. Instead, they are so eager to return to power that they simply don't care if the impacts are discriminatory. The same is true about their approach in defunding schools. Too many, particularly in the south, have taken their kids out of public schools, and don't care that the contraction of funding, and the concentration of hard to educate kids in the public schools, have racially discriminatory impacts.

As long as the Republican Party remains silent about racist dialogue in the public forums, and chooses racially divisive propaganda like Willie Horton and Obama phone ads, they will have difficulty appealing to a broader sector than angry old men. Thinks this is all in the past? Think again.

Quote:
An adorable Cheerios commercial featuring an interracial couple and their daughter generated such a strong racist backlash on YouTube that the comments section had to be closed.

The ad had received more than 1,600 likes and more than 500 dislikes as of Thursday evening.

You can watch the full ad in the video above.

Prior to the closure, the comment section had been filled "with references to Nazis, 'troglodytes' and 'racial genocide,'" according to Adweek.

YouTube comment sections have a reputation for breeding racist flame wars. CNN focused on the issue earlier this year, after a panel addressing racism and race on YouTube was held at South By Southwest:

"Everyone gets hate comments on YouTube," said Andre Meadows, the creator of the Black Nerd Comedy channel. "You can make the most wonderful video in the world and you will get 'Fake!' and 'Gay!'"
But for minority creators, "when you get comments, it seems to be targeted toward race almost immediately. A lot of people get 'dumb video, stupid video' -- but with mine it immediately goes to racial slurs."
Commenters on the cereal's Facebook page also said they found the commercial "disgusting" and that it made them "want to vomit." Other hateful commenters expressed shock that a black father would stay with his family.


To remain silent in the face of such comments is, as I noted above, bigotry lite.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 995
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
BD--I ask that you tone your responses to RR down. He is one of the more thoughtful on the forum, and brings a certain Canadian naivete in what he doesn't understand about America. Isobars is a true stalker, outing people by name with an implicit threat of violence. As was Yeehah, with the guns avatar.

Back to point. I didn't search for the 2-5% figure, but I know that I read it. The NW's miss the point completely. He takes great solace in not actively saying bigoted things--he is merely an enabler. Bigotry lite if you will.

The issue with the Republican Party, and supporters who enable subtle racism, is that they almost never speak up in opposition to those who speak with bias. Whether it is the Duck Dynasty fool, (how sad that NW finds his restoration to be good news), BB, or more overt statements of prejudice against women, Hispanics, African-Americans, or gays, there is tolerance rather than disapproval from the right. Equally bad is the willingness of the right, in their lust to return to power, to countenance policies that have disproportionately discriminatory effects. I don't believe that most of the party operatives in the Republican Party are trying to restrict voting rights because they hate black and brown people, or that they are trying to prevent voting fraud. Instead, they are so eager to return to power that they simply don't care if the impacts are discriminatory. The same is true about their approach in defunding schools. Too many, particularly in the south, have taken their kids out of public schools, and don't care that the contraction of funding, and the concentration of hard to educate kids in the public schools, have racially discriminatory impacts.

As long as the Republican Party remains silent about racist dialogue in the public forums, and chooses racially divisive propaganda like Willie Horton and Obama phone ads, they will have difficulty appealing to a broader sector than angry old men. Thinks this is all in the past? Think again.

Quote:
An adorable Cheerios commercial featuring an interracial couple and their daughter generated such a strong racist backlash on YouTube that the comments section had to be closed.

The ad had received more than 1,600 likes and more than 500 dislikes as of Thursday evening.

You can watch the full ad in the video above.

Prior to the closure, the comment section had been filled "with references to Nazis, 'troglodytes' and 'racial genocide,'" according to Adweek.

YouTube comment sections have a reputation for breeding racist flame wars. CNN focused on the issue earlier this year, after a panel addressing racism and race on YouTube was held at South By Southwest:

"Everyone gets hate comments on YouTube," said Andre Meadows, the creator of the Black Nerd Comedy channel. "You can make the most wonderful video in the world and you will get 'Fake!' and 'Gay!'"
But for minority creators, "when you get comments, it seems to be targeted toward race almost immediately. A lot of people get 'dumb video, stupid video' -- but with mine it immediately goes to racial slurs."
Commenters on the cereal's Facebook page also said they found the commercial "disgusting" and that it made them "want to vomit." Other hateful commenters expressed shock that a black father would stay with his family.


To remain silent in the face of such comments is, as I noted above, bigotry lite.

deleted by me

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.


Last edited by bajaDean on Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:08 pm; edited 3 times in total
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 995
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
"your saying the southern poverty law is a hate group is also so rich in denial it is unreal. They are a fist class group to aid in exposing/stopping the hate groups. Here is the first page that i gave the link to."

To be honest, I took one quick look at that website before and the graphic images on the home page and in my haste made a quick assumption it was one of your nutty tangental accusations. I'll retract in saying that I would get behind the cause of that website and do not find it is hateful but helpful in fighting hatred.




"This growth in extremism has been aided by mainstream media figures and politicians who have used their platforms to legitimize false propaganda about immigrants and other minorities and spread the kind of paranoid conspiracy theories on which militia groups thrive. "


I always find it interesting when people are so concerned or give so much clout to the opinion of celebrities. The whole Mexicans and the border thing is insane in my opinion. Talk about hard working, salt of the earth nice people, they've almost become the modern day American slaves. American's are talking out of their ass when they want to send them "back home" because I'm pretty sure W.A.S.P.-Y America couldn't get by without them at this point.


You plan on justifying any of your bizarre accusations of stalking, having pictures, being a racists etc, or are you planning on just continuing on the same path?


deleted by me section


Here is an example of one just recently what they do for fun.
Racist attacks elderly black man to see whether his ‘knockout’ would be ‘nationally televised’

Quote
A Texas man has been charged with a federal hate crime after he assaulted an elderly black man in an attack motivated by the “knockout game.”

Quote:
Conrad Alvin Barrett singled out his victim — who authorities did not identify — because of the color of his skin, and federal prosecutors charged him one count of violating the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

Prosecutors allege that according to video recovered from Barrett’s phone, he said, “[t]he plan is to see if I were to hit a black person, would this be nationally televised?”

They allege that he then approached the victim, “hit [him] with such force that the man immediately fell to the ground…then laughed and said ‘knockout’ as he ran to his vehicle and fled.”

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.


Last edited by bajaDean on Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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