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Tell me about the new longboard craze
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jpf18



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 241
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Kone One can be taken out in the waves, but... Careful with these big boards in the open waters. They are a handful in chop and waves or tidal conditions and very hard to get and keep planing when it picks up and it gets all-rollercoastery out there. Memorable sessions for sure... but not necessarily in a good way, hmm...
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jamieinnyc



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpf18 wrote:
Yes, the Kone One can be taken out in the waves, but... Careful with these big boards in the open waters. They are a handful in chop and waves or tidal conditions and very hard to get and keep planing when it picks up and it gets all-rollercoastery out there. Memorable sessions for sure... but not necessarily in a good way, hmm...


Hey jpf18, interested in your experience. It's the opposite of mine, up to a point where I have no data. When it gets all roller-coastery for me, longboards are better, in that the early-planing difference grows, not shrinks. The first ocean board of mine to plane is the Mistral Pacifico, but no useful straps on that one, so as soon as the wind is enough to keep the Kona Surf on a plane, that one goes out. And it planes before all the smaller boards, and is very comfortable to sail in big and sloppy wind swell. And fast. And also very controlled/comfortable. But where I sail, when wind is over 25mph, large and heavy shore break closes out ocean sessions - so maybe these are the conditions you are talking about, over 25mph?

Anyway, not sure of the physics that would make a longboard slower to plane and harder to keep on a plane in large ocean swell. But definitely interested.
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jpf18



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 241
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamieinnyc wrote:
Hey jpf18, interested in your experience.

Some tidal affairs:
- York River in Yorktown, at the route 17 bridge where the York gets very narrow and the current's running the strongest. River sailing in flat water in flooding conditions. Worked very well, powered from the W, with dagger board down and pinching 100% of the time. When powered while flooding, the Kona Ones' beat out all other longboards. Formula class getting washed, unhappy campers there.
- Cape Henry, VA. Ebbing. Winds picking up from the NE (in contrast to forecast). So what was supposed to be an afternoon cruise off of First Landing state park got quite the workout just to get back upwind to the launch. Well, chop gets jacked up there like everywhere else when the wind runs against the current (nothing like the next one though)
- First year I sailed at Crissy Field. Flooding. Didn't bother going back in before it started cranking. Mistake. So I got washed to last chance beach (that's at Aquatic Park). Low fitness level played a role there too, but still... Well, got my behind whipped just like everybody else who hasn't paid his or her dues at Crissy. I'll never take the Kona out there again, like, ever, I think.

I always had a good time in sheltered waters, stuff like VA Beach Back Bay, James River or the Currituck and Pamlico Sounds, but when you "should be" on a shortboard... I'd say take the shortboard.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpf18 wrote:
Well, chop gets jacked up there like everywhere else when the wind runs against the current


Your post got me thinking, to see how it relates to my experience. I mostly sail Kona, with limited shortboard experience.

I would first say that I never experienced conditions where I couldn't easily and efficiently schlog upwind. It is often easier without the daggerboard if conditions are difficult. Obviously I might have problems in 35 kts with a 9.0, but this is not board related...

In Quebec City, people mostly go out on the St.Lawrence River when the wind runs against the current, since it generates nice large smooth waves. I tried it once and the Kona behaved very nicely in a bit more than 20 kts.

On lake Champlain, in 25 kts with a smaller fin, you can get nice sets of wind driven waves. The board behaves nicely. However, you are also going fast, on top of the water, and get shaken by the chop. The board planing area is similar to a 135l slalom board, so you get what you deserve!

There is a local spot, Cartier, where I don't like to sail. There is a bit of current, motorboats and protective walls on the shore. This creates a lot of disorganized chop. Schloging or railing upwind with the daggerboard was never a problem but I often find I need more wind than usual to get and stay on the plane. In more than 20 kts, I try to keep the nose low so it doesn't catch the wind too much. This must create a lot of extra drag if the "useless" nose area skims the chop when on the plane. I'll try riding with the nose higher next time, but I assume a shortboard is better there.

So I think you are right that chop pushes back the planing threshold for longboards, but I also feel that a Kona will get on the plane sooner than shortboards when using swell or waves. In fact, you can do it in conditions where shortboards don't even go out.
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nodak



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone sailed Kona Carbon? How much of a difference can a couple of kgs in weight between the two Kona's be to affect or improve performance?

Steve G./Aerotech Sails quoted $2,999 or something like that for the Kona Carbon.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nodak wrote:
How much of a difference can a couple of kgs in weight between the two Kona's be to affect or improve performance?


The gain is more than that. 3.4kg for the hull. The carbon daggerboard and fin could save up to another 2 kg. I am sure the hull weight will matter a lot because the board is so long. The reduction in "swing weight" (moment of inertia) will be clearly perceived. I'd love to try one!
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windswell



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've often said that I'll never sell my old Mistral Superlight, the one with the oversize race daggerboard, and no footstraps. By comparison the Superlight 2 was a terrible compromise. There's also a 130 L. Carve, 99L Naish Wave Floater. 80 L. old JimmyLewis wave board in my barn. And sails from 7.0 to 4.0 with 5.8 on the 99L. Naish Wave Floater the most used combo for on-shore wavesailing for my 160 pound body.

Windsurfing for me is about feeling powered and slightly challenged-thrilled, not terrified, by the experience, or a mellow afternoon in a beautiful setting. The old Mistral Superlight excels in the mellow-feeling powered on an appropriate piece of equipment for light wind. In sub-planing conditions, it'll rail up on the daggerboard to a 45 degree heel and be waaaaaaaaay more challenging than most flat water sailing is for me. It catches VERY SMALL waves and rides them a long time. On medium-size waves it's like a locomotive-out-of-control and doesn't stop until it hits the sand. I use the Superlight with a 6.2 or 5.8 in waves or flat water when I can't plane with the 7.0 on the 130 L. Carve.

Friends of mine SUP paddle the Superlight on flat water and have won races. I haven't paddled it myself. It has enormous secondary stability, but not a lot of initial stability.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. Here's the official explanation of the longboard comeback.

The reason is......Windsurf Magazine went out of business!

We had years and years of being brain-washed into thinking 'if you're not planing, youe not windsurfing'. Every picture and article involved extreme windsurfing. The majority of folks don't have that kind of physical fitness and/or wind and wave conditions. If the magazine ever starts again, it will kill the longboard again.

The original superlight with the displacement hull was awesome. I sail Kona One now. I miss railing upwind, for sure. But love the early planing, high wind performance, and extra stability from the flat bottom.
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spennie



Joined: 13 Oct 1995
Posts: 843
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windswell writes: "Windsurfing for me is about feeling powered and slightly challenged-thrilled"

Try speedsailing on a Kona! Top right reading is top speed, in mph..



IMG_20130605_164140_771.jpg
 Description:
Kona One speedsailing, June 2013, Lake Isabella, CA
 Filesize:  929.2 KB
 Viewed:  1891 Time(s)

IMG_20130605_164140_771.jpg



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Spennie the Wind Junkie
www.WindJunkie.net
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outhaul



Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamieinnyc wrote:

And yes, longboards are back because in the presence of SUPs they no longer look so big, and yes, because they are fun, and with few compromises make windsurfing possible in any conditions.



Great points.
Suddenly having a big SUP strapped to the top of your car is cool.
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