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Early planing difference between 11.9 Race and 10.0 FreeRide
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
At 200 pounds, I have a North 11.8 Warp that I use on light days. It is actually harder to get on a plane than the 11.0 because it is hard to pump a sail that big efficiently unless you are a big, strong, fit pro. In marginal conditions, it will plane, but not go upwind or downwind very well. If that is what you want...


I am surprised that you notice much difference between the 11.0 and 11.8. Are they both Warps?

To give some additional info/perspective as to what I'm thinking. I can get a new (old stock) 11.0 VMG (2009) for $500 plus shipping. Not bad at all for a sail that size. I wouldn't even need a new boom since my 260 (Carbon) size boom would work. Not many sails that size available (none really) that would work with that size boom. That is one less piece of equipment I have to lug and store. I can get a new 11.9 VMG (2009) for $650 plus another $250 for a Chinook aluminum 225-287 boom plus shipping. The other option is a new 11.0 RapidFire (2008) for $400, but that would also require the Chinook boom. I also found a 2010 Maui Sails Titan 11.0 for $350, but would also require a larger boom. I have a 550 mast already.

These are good prices and these items won't always be available. Once they are gone, my choices go down and costs go up considerably unless I get really lucky in the used market. Most older sails require giant 290 booms or larger and they are just not available or cheap.

I think my best bet is the 11.0 VMG, but I may not gain any early planing, and possibly lose some. I would gain control when it gets windier and that will allow me to not have to re-rig as early. I would also gain some top end. It of course, weighs more, is difficult to water start/uphaul and a little more time rigging.
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:

Fins clearly matter, both size (length) and quality. I use a beefy Kashy 70 cm for my 11 and 11.8. A 66 or 67 works better when the 11 is lit; in those circumstances getting onto a plane is not an issue.


I have Curtis racing 62 and 70 fins. Decent? Garbage? Out of date? There is a FinWorks 70 for sale in the classifieds for $150. Am I going to see a big difference with that one?

I did check with F4 fins and they would make me one for $600. I think if I was racing, I would do it, but just for fun sailing, I'm not sure I would see a difference since most of the time they are talking pointing angle.
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carl



Joined: 25 Feb 1997
Posts: 2501
Location: SF bay area

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have to buy and use a bigger aluminum boom, forget it. (been there done that, really bad results).
Your advantage of the larger sail goes out the window because it will be very unstable with an aluminum boom, they flex way too much in the big sizes.

As for fins, you already have a 70, why do you need a new fin?
Curtis made some great fins, I doubt you'll notice any diif with another brand.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a substantial difference between the 11 and the 11.8--both Warp's. The 11.8 is older, and has a bit less range than the 11.0. The 11.0 is actually my favorite sail because the water is relatively flat when I use that, it is good to about 18, and sailable to about 20.

The Curtis fins should be good, unless you are racing competitively, or sailing with a pack of racers, the Kashy's and F4's are probably too pricey. You would notice the difference if you were sailing with someone like Steve Sylvester every day and trying to keep up.

Agree with Carl on booms. There should still be some Gulftech's out there that are working pretty well and good value for the dollar.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 481

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure your mast will be a good fit for the sail you select. I think Aerotech uses Constant Curve and MS uses Hard Top. Poor tuning on large sails has a big impact.
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailboarder wrote:
Make sure your mast will be a good fit for the sail you select. I think Aerotech uses Constant Curve and MS uses Hard Top. Poor tuning on large sails has a big impact.


I have been reading that too, but I am actually using a Maui Sails mast SRS 550 (100% Carbon) with the Aerotech. I have a Sailworks 520 that I have also used with it. The best day I have had with the sail so far has been on the Maui Sails mast. When I say best day, I mean the earliest planing day. The sail worked great and the sail rigged well, with no noticeable difference in appearance from the Sailworks mast with the longer extension. I looked up the Maui Sails mast and it says its a constant curve. Now if it really is a "hard top", it might be more apparent in higher winds where it won't spill as much power. At my weight, it might not be noticeable.

http://www.mauisails.com/index.php?what=masts
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to check out the following chart.


http://www.unifiber.net/2013/mast-selector
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mast names can be quite confusing. i've given up on them. i'd rather use the OEM name. some aerotechs are adaptive to maui sails masts. unfortunately, that's another culprit to your perceived lack of low end. i've sailed the 10.0 RF with a fiber spar mast that has a similar bend to the MS mast. too much flex down low makes for a lean entry and unstable top end.

sorry to be the bearer of that bad news. the SW mast should be far more compatible. you will notice a fuller entry, and more stable top end, esp in chop.

methinks all masts should have their bend %'s pasted to them. for that matter, all sails should have bend %'s required on them too.

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://powerexmasts.com/?page_id=72
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2026

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
methinks all masts should have their bend %'s pasted to them. for that matter, all sails should have bend %'s required on them too.


Ditto that! That is why I measured the % bend on all my masts and what an eye opener it was when I measured them. Turns out even the Unifiber chart is questionable.

Which brings us to ordering online. You to take a risk unless you know and have dealt with a shop for a long time. At a local shop you can just take in your mast and try it out.

Coachg
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
fiber spar mast that has a similar bend to the MS mast. too much flex down low makes for a lean entry and unstable top end.

sorry to be the bearer of that bad news. the SW mast should be far more compatible. you will notice a fuller entry, and more stable top end, esp in chop..


Anyone need a 550 Maui Sails mast? Very Happy

I will look for what you describe above the next time I sail...especially in somewhat stronger winds/chop. I can switch masts and compare. What I have experienced so far though, it seems to work fine.

Also, just to clarify, I think the 10.0 Rapid Fire has a lot of low end, I just wanted to know more about race sails and why people say they don't have the low end that freeride does.

I appreciate everyone's advice and input.
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