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Early planing difference between 11.9 Race and 10.0 FreeRide
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 8890

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, so you can easily test the performance differences between the three fins. I'd do that first before investing big bucks in a new sail and boom.

Another avenue that would improve performance with your 10.0 would be an adjustable outhaul. Ultimately, if you elect to go with either a max sized racing formula or freeride sail, it will make a notable difference.
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Great, so you can easily test the performance differences between the three fins. I'd do that first before investing big bucks in a new sail and boom.

Another avenue that would improve performance with your 10.0 would be an adjustable outhaul. Ultimately, if you elect to go with either a max sized racing formula or freeride sail, it will make a notable difference.


If only I had a 12 meter sail to test against, then I could see if it was worth it! It will always be in the back of my mind...you could be planing today if you had a bigger sail....of course I am talking the lightest of conditions and at some point it will just be too light even if on formula kit.

I will try the other fins and boards too. I have been thinking about getting the adjustable outhaul. I will do it soon.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:

i've sailed both. the RF is way easier in the corners. way easier to get some feed back from the sail for clues as to when to try to pump. takes weeks of training to enjoy the double luff sails. whether one likes one or the other depends on how much TOW one gets. more TOW, day in day out, the more one may like the VMG? with my pumping and experienced cornering, i'd rather go RF.


Nice comparison. Have you also tried a Dagger raceboard sail?. I guess it could plane faster at the same size since it has a tighter leach at the expense of less stability and shock absorption in higher winds?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18459

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thorofareken wrote:
If they made a 12.0 RapidFire, I think that I would have bought it already.

Have you considered SUP, a PWC, a racing scull, light air freestyle, or many of the other light wind water sports (don't laugh at the PWC; standup PWC freestyle can work yer butt off)? At some point chasing the plane becomes more work than play.
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
thorofareken wrote:
If they made a 12.0 RapidFire, I think that I would have bought it already.

Have you considered SUP, a PWC, a racing scull, light air freestyle, or many of the other light wind water sports (don't laugh at the PWC; standup PWC freestyle can work yer butt off)? At some point chasing the plane becomes more work than play.


I'm happy windsurfing. I just want to get the most out of it and I actually enjoy the challenge/workout of large sails and chasing the wind, but I especially enjoy it when I am the only one planing. Razz

If I had a PWC, I would be asking what is the fastest one or the most manuverable one. I like to take it to the highest performance that I can reasonably afford and handle skillwise.

I was looking at kayaks and then I saw the really long high performance ones....it just goes on.... Very Happy

But you are right...there are definitely diminishing returns below a certain wind level.


Last edited by thorofareken on Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the catapult is an issue that might be addressed. these other boards you have are very powerful compared to the futura, and are more able to pump to plane as well. the futura is a comfortable board, but it is so because it has a double concave fairly aft of the mast base. that impedes early planing, especially pumping.

the trick with pumping is to not be hooked in anyway. arms extended, push down on the boom onto the mast foot. raise the boom, repeat. throw in some bend at the knees body english for good measure. three pumps, front foot in strap. two more back foot in. then hook in. the larger boards are worthy of this hook in after you are in the straps technique. catapults become a thing of the past in all your sailing once you adopt this hook in after strap(s) technique. boards on hand should bring your planing threshold down quite a bit.....

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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUP sailing is most fun when grabbing waves. windSUP sailing is even better. should be getting the 10'2" very shortly.
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
the catapult is an issue that might be addressed. these other boards you have are very powerful compared to the futura, and are more able to pump to plane as well. the futura is a comfortable board, but it is so because it has a double concave fairly aft of the mast base. that impedes early planing, especially pumping.

the trick with pumping is to not be hooked in anyway. arms extended, push down on the boom onto the mast foot. raise the boom, repeat. throw in some bend at the knees body english for good measure. three pumps, front foot in strap. two more back foot in. then hook in. the larger boards are worthy of this hook in after you are in the straps technique. catapults become a thing of the past in all your sailing once you adopt this hook in after strap(s) technique. boards on hand should bring your planing threshold down quite a bit.....


Catapulting...I find I'm sometimes getting caught off guard when I am still hooked in but transitioning with my foot out of the strap or both feet out. It sounds like if I were to unhook before stepping out of the straps, it should reduce going over the front. I will need to re-train myself to only be hooked in when strapped in. Should that do it?

I've gotten it down to only 1 or 2 catapults a session now, but that is 1 or 2 too many on a fragile board.
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thorofareken



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pumping.....I appreciate the description that you have give for this. I watch the videos and try it on the water, but it doesn't seem to be clicking yet. I will follow what you described next time. Thanks.
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carl



Joined: 25 Feb 1997
Posts: 2632
Location: SF bay area

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pumping makes a HUGE difference in planing threshhold. Bigger fin helps alot too. I would perfect light air technique first (pumping and no catapults) before spending $$$ on a bigger rig.
Many people don't like the 12 meter sails. They are a BEAR just carrying it to the water and are hard to handle when on the water.
Also be very careful with the bigger masts. They are 100% carbon and break very easily with a catapult.
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