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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14632

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:

Track record.............Egypt, Libya (esp. Benghazi), Syria, Iraq, cattle futures, furniture stolen from the White House............."What difference at this point does it make?”

“I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”

Her lies to Congress about the Rose Law Firm billing records.

And, oh yes ... these tidbits from http://prorev.com/hillary.htm ,
merely SUMMARIZED (and referenced) by the following 2016 Anti-Hillary campaign fodder:

SUMMARY

FIRST FIRST LADY to come under criminal investigation

FIRST FIRST LADY to almost be indicted according to one of the special prosecutors

NUMBER of Hillary Clinton fundraisers convicted of, or pleading no contest to, crime: 5

NUMBER OF TIMES that Hillary Clinton, providing testimony to Congress, said that she didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar: 250

NUMBER OF CLOSE BUSINESS partners of Hillary Clinton who ended up in prison: 3. The Clintons' two partners in Whitewater wereconvicted of 24 counts of fraud and conspiracy. Hillary Clinton's partner and mentor at the Rose law firm, Webster Hubbell, pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges, including defrauding former clients and former partners out of more than $480,000. Hillary Clinton was mentioned 35 times in the indictment.

IN THE 1980s, Hillary Clinton made a $44,000 profit on a $2,000 investment in a cellular phone franchise deal took advantage of the FCC's preference for locals, minorities and women. The franchise was almost immediately flipped to the cellular giant, McCaw.

HILLARY CLINTON AND HER HUSBAND set up a resort land scam known as Whitewater in which the unwitting bought third rate property 50 miles from the nearest grocery store and, thanks to the sleazy financing, about half the purchasers, many of them seniors, lost their property.

IN 1993 HILLARY CLINTON and David Watkins moved to oust the White House travel office in favor of World Wide Travel, Clinton's source of $1 million in fly-now-pay-later campaign trips that essentially financed the last stages of the campaign without the bother of reporting a de facto contribution. The White House fired seven long-term employees for alleged mismanagement and kickbacks. The director, Billy Dale, charged with embezzlement, was acquitted in less than two hours by the jury.

HRC'S 1994 HEALTH CARE PLAN, according to one account, included fines of up to $5,000 for refusing to join the government-mandated health plan, $5,000 for failing to pay premiums on time, 15 years to doctors who received "anything of value" in exchange for helping patients short-circuit the bureaucracy, $10,000 a day for faulty physician paperwork, $50,000 for unauthorized patient treatment, and $100,000 a day for drug companies that messed up federal filings.

TWO MONTHS after commencing the Whitewater scheme, Hillary Clinton invested $1,000 in cattle futures. Within a few days she had a $5,000 profit. Before bailing out she earns nearly $100,000 on her investment. Many years later, several economists will calculate that the chances of earning such returns legally were one in 250 million.

IN 1996, Hillary Clinton's Rose law firm billing records, sought for two years by congressional investigators and the special prosecutor were found in the back room of the personal residence at the White House. Clinton said she had no idea how they got there.

DRUG DEALER Jorge Cabrera gave enough to the Democrats to have his picture taken with both Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. . . Cabrera was arrested in January 1996 inside a cigar warehouse in Dade County, where more than 500 pounds of cocaine had been hidden. He and several accomplices were charged with having smuggled 3,000 pounds of cocaine into the United States through the Keys

In 2000, Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign returned $22,000 in soft money to a businesswoman linked to a Democratic campaign contribution from a drug smuggler in Havana.

IN AUGUST 2000, Hillary Clinton held a huge Hollywood fundraiser for her Senate campaign. It was very successful. The only problem was that, by a long shot, she didn't report all the money contributed: $800K by the US government's ultimate count in a settlement and $2 million according to the key contributor and convicted con Peter Paul. This is, in election law, the moral equivalent of not reporting a similar amount on your income tax. It is a form of fraud. Hillary Clinton's defense is that she didn't know about it

HILLARY CLINTON'S participation in a Whitewater related land deal became suspicious enough to trigger an investigation by the Arkansas Supreme Court.

IN 2007, A Pakistani immigrant who hosted fundraisers for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton became a target of the FBI allegations that he funneled illegal contributions to Clinton's political action committee and to Sen. Barbara Boxer's 2004 re-election campaign. Authorities say Northridge, Calif., businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, 56, fled the country shortly after being indicted on charges of engineering more than $50,000 in illegal donations to the Democratic committees.

HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTED the appointment of Rudy Giuliani's buddy, Bernie Kerick, to be Secretary of Homeland Security,. Kerick subsequently withdrew and not long after was indicted.

TALES OF HILLARY

Times, UK, 2009 - Hillary Clinton . . . was back in Belfast last week, giving a gentle push to politicians dragging their heels over a final piece in the peace process jigsaw.

But according to the Sunday Life newspaper, during a speech she made to the Stormont parliament, she said that Belfast's landmark Europa Hotel was devastated by an explosion when she first stayed there in 1995.

The Europa, where most journalists covering the decades-long conflict stayed, was famed as Europe's most bombed hotel, earning the moniker "the Hardboard Hotel".

However, the last Provisional IRA bomb to damage the Europa was detonated in 1993, two years before President Clinton and his wife checked in for the night.

The last time the Europa underwent renovations because of bomb blast damage was in January 1994, 22 months before the presidential entourage booked 110 rooms at the hotel.

Mrs Clinton told assembled politicians at Stormont: "When Bill and I first came to Belfast we stayed at the Europa Hotel . . . even though then there were sections boarded up because of damage from bombs."

During the presidential campaign Mrs Clinton drew on her Bosnia experience, saying: "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport but we just ran with our heads down to get in the vehicles to get to our base."

After archive news footage was shown of her walking calmly from her plane with her daughter, Chelsea, Ms Clinton admitted: "I did mis-speak the other day. . .

OTHER TALES OF HILLLARY

- Hillary claimed she played pickup basketball when she was young, presumably to get ready for her race against Obama.
- She was named after Sir Edmund Hillary. who climbed Mount Everest.
- She was a Yankees fan when she lived in Chicago.
- She told upstate New Yorkers she had been a "duck hunter."
- She claimed on Sept. 11 daughter Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center.
- Number of times that Hillary Clinton, providing testimony to Congress, said that she didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar: 250

AP - Democrat John Edwards said the top strategist for presidential rival Hillary Rodham Clinton [Mark Penn] has ties to the controversial Blackwater security firm, and warned against installing "a group of corporate Democrats" to replace the Bush White House. Edwards suggested similarities between Clinton, the Democratic front-runner, and the Republican president. Penn, Clinton's pollster and senior strategist, is the worldwide president of Burson-Marsteller, a public relations firm. A subsidiary, BKSH, helped prepare Blackwater founder Erik Prince for a contentious congressional hearing this week, but Burson-Marsteller says the relationship has ended. Clinton's spokesman, Howard Wolfson, said Penn had done no work on the Blackwater account.

KATHRYN JOYCE AND JEFF SHARLET, MOTHER JONES - Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. . . Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ. . . [the leader's] friends include former Attorney General John Ashcroft, Reaganite Edwin Meese III, and ultraconservative Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Pa.). The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

JOSHUA GREEN, THE ATLANTIC, 2006 - Clinton's proficiency in this innermost sanctum has unnerved some of the capital's most exalted religious conservatives. "You're not talking about some tree-hugging, Jesus-is-my-Buddha sort of stuff," says David Kuo, a former Bush official in the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, who worked with Clinton to promote joint legislation and who, like Brownback, has apologized to her for past misdeeds. "These are powerful evangelicals she's meeting with."

MICKEY KAUS - On page 93 of the new Gerth-Van Natta Hillary Clinton book, a sentence describes how, during the '92 campaign, Hillary herself "listened to a secretly recorded audiotape of a phone conversation of Clinton critics plotting their next attack. The tape contained discussions of another woman who might surface with allegations about an affair with Bill. Bill's supporters monitored frequencies used by cell phones, and the tape was made during one of those monitoring sessions."

SUN SENTINEL, FL - U.S. Reps. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, of Weston, and Alcee Hastings, of Miramar, were appointed national campaign co-chairs on Thursday for U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's Democratic presidential effort. "We need a leader with a clear vision and sound judgment, who can work with a Democratic Congress to renew the promise of America. Hillary is that leader," Wasserman Schultz said in a statement. . . WIKIPEDIA - In 1981 Judge Hastings was charged with accepting a $150,000 bribe in exchange for a lenient sentence and a return of seized assets for 21 counts of racketeering by Frank and Thomas Romano, and of perjury in his testimony about the case. He was acquitted by a jury after his alleged co-conspirator, William Borders, refused to testify in court (resulting in a jail sentence for Borders).

CNS - A videotape shows New York Sen. Hillary Clinton. . . should be admitted as new evidence in a California civil case, a forthcoming legal brief to be filed by argues. The tape shows Clinton speaking in 2000 with Peter Paul, a Hollywood mogul, and comic book icon Stan Lee about a massive fundraising event for her 2000 Senate race. Paul spent about $2 million of his own money to produce the event. The legal contribution limit to a candidate then was $2,000. . . A portion of the videotape captures the closing words of a lengthy conversation in which Paul was present. The voice of Hillary Clinton is heard telling Lee that Paul and her chief campaign aide "talk all the time, so she'll be the person to convey whatever I need." She is then heard adding, "I wanted to call and personally thank all of you ... [and] tell you how much this means to me. It's going to mean a lot to the president, too." Clinton and her supporters have maintained that she had no direct knowledge that the event violated campaign finance rules. In a written declaration for the California court filed on April 7, 2006, the senator said only that she didn't remember discussions with Paul about the fundraiser.

DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN, NEWSMAX - Since he left office in 2001, former president Bill Clinton has been paid by $3.3 million by Info USA, an Omaha, Nebraska company that has been identified as a key provider of specially designed databases that have been sold to criminals who use the detailed information to defraud the unsuspecting elderly. . . According to the New York Times, Info USA compiled and sold lists that disclosed the names of elderly men and women who would be likely to respond to unscrupulous scams. The lists left no doubt about the vulnerability of the elderly targets. The Times reported, for example, that Info USA advertised lists of "Elderly Opportunity Seekers," 3.3 million older people "looking for ways to make money," and "Suffering Seniors," 4.7 million people with cancer or Alzheimer's disease. "Oldies but Goodies" contained 500,000 gamblers over 55 years old, for 8.5 cents

MIKE McINTIRE, NY TIMES - When former President Bill Clinton and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton took a family vacation in January 2002 to Acapulco, Mexico, one of their longtime supporters, Vinod Gupta, provided his company's private jet to fly them there. The company, Info USA, one of the nation's largest brokers of information on consumers, paid $146,866 to ferry the Clintons, Mr. Gupta and others to Acapulco and back, court records show. During the next four years, Info USA paid Mr. Clinton more than $2 million for consulting services, and spent almost $900,000 to fly him around the world for his presidential foundation work and to fly Mrs. Clinton to campaign events. Those expenses are cited in a lawsuit filed late last year in a Delaware court by angry shareholders of Info USA, who assert that Mr. Gupta wasted the company's money trying "to ingratiate himself" with his high-profile guests"t

SAM SMITH, 'SHADOWS OF HOPE,' 1994 - During the first months of the Clinton administration, one of the biggest national policy changes of the past fifty years was being forged by a secret committee led by Mrs. Clinton under procedures that periodically defied the courts and the Government Accounting Office . . , Despite the contrary evidence of public opinion polls, the concept of Canadian-style single-payer insurance was dismissed early. Tom Hamburger and Ted Marmor in the Washington Monthly tell of a single-payer proponent being invited to the White House in February 1993. It was, he said, a "pseudo-consultation;" the doctor was quickly informed that "single payer is not politically feasible." When Dr. David Himmelstein of the Harvard Medical School pressed Mrs. Clinton on single payer, she replied, "Tell me something interesting, David." In other words, write Hamburger and Marmor: "Fewer than six weeks into the Clinton presidency, the White House had made its key policy decision: Before the Health Care Task Force wrote a single page of its 22-volume report to the President, the single payer idea was written off, and "managed competition" was in.". . . Reported Thomas Bodenehimer in Nation: "Around Hillary Rodham Clinton's health reform table sit the managed-competition winners: big business, hospitals, large (but not small) commercial insurers, the Blues, budget-worried government leaders and the 'Jackson Hole Group,' the chief intellectual honchos of the managed competition movement. . . Adherence to the mantra of managed competition appears to be the price of a ticket of admission to this gathering. "

LA TIMES - A Pakistani immigrant who hosted fundraisers for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is being sought by the FBI on allegations that he funneled illegal contributions to Clinton's political action committee and to Sen. Barbara Boxer's 2004 re-election campaign. Authorities say Northridge, Calif., businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, 56, fled the country shortly after being indicted on charges of engineering more than $50,000 in illegal donations to the Democratic committees. A business associate charged as Jinnah's co-conspirator has entered a guilty plea and is scheduled to be sentenced in Los Angeles next week. A federal law enforcement source said prosecutors had not dealt with the political committees in conducting their investigation and had no evidence that the committees knew the contributions were illegal.

DICK MORRIS AND EILEEN MCGANN, JEWISH WORLD REVIEW - With each new disclosure, Bill and Hillary Clinton's connection between the emir of Dubai, Sheik Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, seems ever more intimate. Last February, Sen. Clinton was out front in condemning DP World, a Dubai government-owned company seeking to take over key operations at American ports. But, at the same time, Bill was advising the emir to hire his former press secretary, Joe Lockhart, to get the deal approved. Back then, Lockhart denied working for the emir. And when Bill's role became public, Hillary claimed that she had no idea that he had any involvement in the DP World issue. Now, it turns out that the emir's Dubai International Capital Corp. hired Lockhart's company, Glover Park Group, by last April to help with another U.S. deal - a takeover of two defense firms. The relationship between the Clintons and the emir has long been too close to avoid scrutiny. Something is driving up Bill and Hillary's net worth pretty dramatically. In 2003, Sen. Clinton disclosed assets of at least $352,000 but less than $3.8 million. By 2005, she was declaring assets in the $10 million to $50 million range. . .

WALL STREET JOURNAL - The core of [HRC'S] team includes several staunch loyalists from her husband's time in power, including former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, former United Nations ambassador Richard Holbrooke, and Samuel "Sandy" Berger, who succeeded Mr. Lake as national security adviser during Mr. Clinton's second term. . . WIKIPEDIA - In April 2005, Berger plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington. According to the lead prosecutor in the case Berger only took copies of classified information and that no original material was destroyed, however there is notable controversy and speculation that he might have removed or destroyed originals of other unknown documents as well.

Jerry Zeifman, Accuracy in Media, 2008 - At the time of Watergate I had overall supervisory authority over the House Judiciary Committee’s Impeachment Inquiry staff that included Hillary Rodham-who was later to become First Lady in the Clinton White House.

... After President Nixon’s resignation a young lawyer, who shared an office with Hillary, confided in me that he was dismayed by her erroneous legal opinions and efforts to deny Nixon representation by counsel-as well as an unwillingness to investigate Nixon. In my diary of August 12, 1974 I noted the following:

John Labovitz apologized to me for the fact that months ago he and Hillary had lied to me [to conceal rules changes and dilatory tactics.] Labovitz said, “That came from Yale.” I said, “You mean Burke Marshall [Senator Ted Kennedy's chief political strategist, with whom Hillary regularly consulted in violation of House rules.] Labovitz said, “Yes.” His apology was significant to me, not because it was a revelation but because of his contrition.

HOW TO TELL
OBAMA & CLINTON APART

2008

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HOW CLINTON AND OBAMA ARE ALIKE

Their positions are often barely distinguishable from that of the Republicans
They have built their campaigns around genetic identity rather than on political principles and issues.
"I would be stunned to find an anti-business [Supreme Court] appointee from either of them," Cass Sunstein, who is a constitutional adviser to Obama, told me. "There's not a strong interest on the part of Obama or Clinton in demonizing business, and you wouldn't expect to see that in their Supreme Court nominees." - Jeffrey Rosen, NY Times
They take multiple positions on individual issues such as NAFTA
They have produced no interesting new ideas nor promised to fight for any important new programs
They have offered no good idea about how to handle the current economic crisis
Neither has ameaningful urban policy
Neither are will willing to take on the criminality of Bush's use of torture.
They have gone about their campaigns as though they were leading a cult rather than a political movement
Clinton hangs out with a covert group of right wing GOP Christians; Obama would name some of them to his cabinet.
They have similar voting records with Progressive Punch ranking Obama 24th and Clinton 19h in Senate
The both dissed Nader for daring to run for president again
Obama wrote that conservatives and Bill Clinton were right to destroy social welfare, Clinton supported her husband's program
Hillary Clinton comes in at 38th and Obama at 48th in the ranking of the League of Conservation Voters
Both have hawkish foreign policy advisors involved in past US misdeeds and failures
Both support Israeli aggression and apartheid. Obama has deserted previous support for two-state solution to Mid East situation
Both have voted numerous times to continue funding the war
Both support or won't oppose nuclear power
Both support war on drugs
Both support Real ID
Both support No Child Left Behind
Both supported crack-cocaine sentence disparity
Both oppose single payer healthcare
Both support PATRIOT Act
Both support the death penalty
Both have no clear plan to leave Iraq and Afghanistan
Both support charter schools
Both support federally funded ethanol

HOW CLINTON AND OBAMA ARE DIFFERENT

Obama, unlike Clinton, has no plans to "obliterate:" Iran
Clinton would continue the 28 year old Reagan - Bush - Clinton - Bush era; Obama would probably end it.
While both have misled voters, Clinton has by far the worst record, witness the cattle futures, Whitewater, travel office and similar scandals as well as the fact that five of her fundraisers have been convicted of, or pleaded no contest to, crimes and one fled the country after being indicted on charges related to raising money.
While they both have had seamy friends, so far only one has surfaced for Obama - Rezko - as opposed to a lengthy list for Clinton that begins with three close business partners who ended up in prison.
Obama, unlike Clinton, has never been almost indicted.
Obama, unlike Clinton, has never been mentioned 35 times in a criminal indictment.
Obama, unlike Clinton, has never been involved in a resort land scam in which about half the purchasers, many of them seniors, lost their property.
Obama, unlike Clinton, is not currently being sued in a case involving an allegedly massive misreporting of campaign contributions.
Obama, unlike Clinton, did not support the appointment of the now indicted Bernie Kerick to be head of Homeland Security
Obama would be good at international negotiations; foreign leaders wouldn't know whether to trust Clinton.
Obama is not married to Bill Clinton
Obama has revealed his tax returns; Clinton hasn't
Clinton thinks McCain would be better qualified for the White House than Obama; Obama would rather have Clinton than McCain
The Clinton administration, according to an HRC ad, wouldn't answer an emergency White House call until the sixth ring; the Obama administration, it is implied, would wait for the seventh.
Obama voted against immunity for telecoms' illegal spying on Americans; Clinton didn't show up for the vote.
Obama has inspired a lot of young and minority voters to get involved in politics; Clinton has relied upon a traditional and aging constituency.
Obama favored cluster bomb ban in civilian areas; Clinton opposed the ban
Obama says "everything is on the table" with Social Security. Clinton seems slightly more supportive of the classic Democratic program
Obama opposed putting heating fuel assistance for low income in stimulus bill; Clinton supported it

OBAMA ALSO. . .

Promises not to sign a trade bill without environmental and labor protections.
Helped fight for restoration of habeas corpus at Gitmo.
Aggressively opposed impeachment action against Bush.
Wouldn't have photo taken with San Francisco mayor because he was afraid it would seem that he supported gay marriage
Opposes lowering the drinking age to 18
Supported restricting damage awards in medical malpractices suits
Supported making it harder to file class action suits in state courts
Misled on extent on lobbyist support
Called the late Paul Wellstone "something of a gadfly"
Voted for a business-friendly "tort reform" bill
Voted for a nuclear energy bill that included money for bunker buster bombs and full funding for Yucca Mountain.
Won't rule out first strike nuclear attack on Iran
Received $708,000 from medical and insurance interests between 2001 and 2006
Went to Connecticut to support Joe Lieberman in the primary against Ned Lamont
Refuses to take a position on the anti-constitutional Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
Called Pakistan "the right battlefield ... in the war on terrorism." Threatened to invade Pakistan
Sounds sort of like Tony Robbins
Uses various evangelical cons to win supporters
Has not revealed his proposed policies in many areas and where he has they primarily consist of minor alterations in the status quo
Voted against a 30% interest rate cap on credit cards
Opposed the war as a state senator, is less certain as a federal one and has voted for full funding of it
Wrote critically in his books of the New Deal and the New Left while praising Bill Clinton

CLINTON ALSO . . .

Favors healthcare individual mandates that would help insurance companies and banks but not citizens
Has the most number of foreign lobbyist contributors
Is even more popular with Pentagon contractors than McCain
Is most popular with K Street lobbyists
Is only First Lady to come under criminal investigation
Has received the most funds from oil industry
Has received the most funds from health industry
Gave most number of evasive answers (250) to congressional inquiries
Submitted the largest false campaign finance report
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2899

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC, My extract did not, of course, lead to a false conclusion. The Clintons took a bunch of stuff from the White House and were shamed into giving more than half back. Believe whatever you wish.

http://www.economist.com/node/501945

No, Murdoch doesn't own the Economist.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, thanks for the ABC News article. I will say though, that you routed out the parts you wanted to highlight here, but to your credit you did provide the link to the full article. It certainly was a relief to know that the Clintons didn't rip-off any of the White House's historical antiques.

One wonders what happened when the two Bushes and Reagan left, and what the particulars were about any of the stuff (gifts) that they took with them. I seriously doubt that any of them left empty handed.

Regarding one another issue that you highlighted, I was wondering what Democrat(s) you would find acceptable as a candidate in the 2016 election. Although I realize that the likelihood of you supporting a Democrat for president is an enormous stretch for a conservative like yourself, at least we would have some idea where you see a glimmer of integrity and potential leadership qualities on the other side of the aisle.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Chandler. The reason Jibe got caught misleading with that quote was because he provided the link. He won't make that mistake next time he fakes one.
He is pretending the curator at the White House is a Clinton spokesman, and the usual sorting process is really " getting caught" in a massive theft.
When I move it is easy to know what gifts are mine because the HOUSE itself does not get presents that are handed to me at a ceremony with my name on the card.
The reason the fake scandal machine is cranking up on her is to keep her from being popular and getting elected.
Like the big successes they had with her husband and Obama. Their problem is that smart people are turned off by that kind of scum sucking.
Sad about he GOP leadership and the sycophants here showing how easily they are mislead. Their numbers are shrinking.
Jibe is no fool. Maybe one day he will have a moment when he wakes up and joins the real conservatives and begins seeking the real compromises that made us successful. He will feel better about himself right away.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well he got this one right:

Quote:
Believe whatever you wish.


Bill Clinton was a sleazy guy, an excellent president, and, as Mitt can attest, a crackerjack orator. I will stipulate that Obama is a better man. But there is little of substance in the piles of attacks on Clinton, and the vitriolic hatred for him and Obama. From the left's perspective, they were both Republicans of the William Scranton stripe.

Given the right wing's hatred of Clinton, their incredible wealth, and the statement above that it may have been difficult to tease apart what was donated to the Clinton's and what was donated to the White House, I believe the release. After all, if they tried to impeach him for a blow job, they would have succeeded if there was more than smoke. I also consider the propensity of the poster to spin the truth and believe, without the slightest bit of due diligence, the worst of everyone that does not see the world the same way he does.

Clinton signed a terrible bill on financial de-regulation, but it is important to remember that it was written by Phil Gramm and passed both chambers with a veto-overriding margin. I will also stipulate that bankers have their hooks into both parties, and there are few, apart from Elizabeth Warren, with the stones to stand up to them. He was wrong, and cowardly, on gays in the military, and his welfare reform helped shred the safety net and embolden the oligarchs. I agreed with him then about international trade (NAFTA); it is pretty clear in hindsight that it has eliminated the opportunity for people with trades to reach the middle class. He was also not a bold man, and both Hillary and Bill have a tendency, now pandemic among politicians, to take no stance without first polling. But these are the mistakes in an overall accomplished presidency, despite his ethics issues. Reasonable people don't expect perfection--or shout with glee when Obama makes a mistake.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2899

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
He is pretending the curator at the White House is a Clinton spokesman

No he isn't. This is what I was referencing....all the way from Berkeley

mac wrote:
In a statement released Monday, Clinton’s transition office said every item they accepted was identified by the White House gift office as a present to them.

No apology needed. As I said, you can believe what you wish.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Expecting perfection in Obama while accepting a the clown parade during the GOP primary is the height of hypocrisy.
Conservatives need a political party that represents the best in good government.
The GOP brand is badly tarnished, the teas legislators prefer not to legislate,
Iso, jibe and the others like them have the GOP.
Real conservatives who want to help their country need a party.
The Tea Party was noble attempt that has not produced positive results but could serve as a teaching example.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2899

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
The GOP brand is badly tarnished, the teas legislators prefer not to legislate, Iso, jibe and the others like them have the GOP.

I challenge you to find one quote from me stating that I am a Republican. I am not a member of the Republican party, I have never donated a penny to the Republican party, or donated any time/ goods to them, I voted for Democrat party candidates for the Senate at 2 of the last 3 elections because I thought they were better candidates. I believe that the leaders of the Republican party are incompetent buffoons as evidenced by their failure to beat an ineffectual President at the last election. But, as always, believe what you wish regardless of the facts.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2409

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Occupy movement started out as a good idea till it was taken over by wanna be anarchists in black outfits and hankies over their faces.
The Tea Party was maybe a good idea...at least in intent, maybe...anyway, the Tea Party was a good idea till it was taken over by brownshirts.
No middle ground in either.

_________________
/w\
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14632

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
I believe that the leaders of the Republican party are incompetent buffoons as evidenced by their failure to beat an ineffectual President at the last election.

Ineffectual? He put beau-coup unearned Obamabucks into their pockets and used data mining very effectively to focus directly on Democrat voters in the last three days before the election.
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