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Lawnmowers Please
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13998

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Yes, I have some law experience and education. Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
if BOTH riders saw each other the one with ROW is required to hold course and the other is required to change course.

Until collision is imminent, of course.

Until that point .. legal, schmegal. What moral "right" does anyone have to impede others' unfettered access to the more unique sections of the river?

Besides, I ain't required to do any such thing. Just because I happen to have my right hand towards my mast and I can see somebody coming my way in no way obligates me to hold a straight line. If it did, no one on starboard on the Columbia would ever be able to step off the railroad tracks. My obligation is not to hit him; If my turning left onto a swell without actually endangering him scares him, a) that's not my problem and b) then he should go sail somewhere else better suited to his gear and abilities ... AS I DO* when I avoid Kodak Point, Ho'okipa, etc. I try to give them tons of room, but if that's not possible they can just piss their pants. I've had oncoming sailors go completely unstable -- it's called pilot-induced oscillation in aircraft -- and literally crash into the water because I turned across their bow at least 50 meters ahead of them. That's their problem, not mine, to solve, and the solution is to go find flatter, less crowded water. They have 80% more flat to choose from than I do swell.

* I try to be very considerate of the deer-in-the-headlights crowd; is it too much to ask that they return the favor? Surfsailors DEMAND it, after all, and despite their arrogant whining to the contrary, the principle is the same: we shouldn't play soccer in the midst of a football or tennis game and the guy who thought he owned that wave is in for a rude surprise in court.

Far too many of these oncoming lawn mowers pass within 4-5 feet downwind of sailors waterstarting, coming out of a jibe, or bearing off trying to plane. ROW, SCHMROW: give 'em some room, you idiots!
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in2surfn



Joined: 08 May 2000
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey lawnmower man, next time you see me sailing clew first down a face making turns maybe you could make a slight adjustment instead of trying to shear off the nose of my board.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13998

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three words: Ampro Gray Wave.
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in2surfn



Joined: 08 May 2000
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Three words: Ampro Gray Wave.


Nothing like a good joust to determine who has the right of way.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1158
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love these conversations. You guys have no clew what your legal responsibilities are. The are POSTED at just about every launch. They don't say "racing rules" they say Right of Way. Burying your heads in the sand and saying it ain't so doesn't make it so. If you doubt me take 5 minutes and do a websearch. It is really easy. But until then argue away...
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Bond1



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some are clewless. Some are tackless. Either is better than being headless.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 614
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senior Citizens should have the right of way, so, those guys better stay out of my way.
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merriam



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bond1 wrote:
Some are clewless. Some are tackless. Either is better than being headless.


I'm bemused about these potential legal conundrums. In 25+ years of sailing here I've never heard of a lawsuit or legal charges over a collision between sailors.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13998

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been several, including the one that got the Dangler banned from Port of Hood River property.

There will be charges worth up to 20 years in prison filed against Benito if he pulls the same stunt on me he pulled on someone else a month or so ago (the ramming incident we discussed).

John, my issue - and that of the OP -- relative to this thread has little to nothing to do with ROW rules/laws/rumors and everything to do with mutual consideration on the water. Even safety takes a back seat in most of this thread, under the presumption that sailors good enough to surf the swell are good enough to avoid collisions in all but the worst sneak attacks by absolute fools.

I didn't hear one complaint* about the guy sailing straight east repeatedly in the Hatchery cove's best swell, luffed, planing only via gravity, smack dab in the center of a hot, windy, midsummer corridor melee, missing the North-South-bound masses of noses and tails by a boom's length or less, for these reasons: he was very obviously in total control, physically interfered with (i.e., hit or forcefully diverted) no one, and was clearly just mastering the swell with neither malice nor attitude. He seemed to have eyes ringing his head and the talent to windfsurf in interstitial spaces not occupied at the instant he slipped through them.

* I'm sure there were some complaints, especially from visitors who don't get the Hatchery, but most of the comments were in amazed admiration, not anger. I'm also sure a few visiting awn mowers panicked and crashed in shock, but they have no right to complain, IMO; one doesn't use the Hatchery in July as a place to learn how to use the straps, as I have witnessed.

The idiot blasting through the zoo wearing blinders, with his tiller lashed to the transom and "Screw You" tattooed across his forehead, is a whole 'nuther problem to deal with.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1158
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mike I understand and I as I gave posted I'm all for playing (I tend to slash more than long rides) but then you can't really complain that you don't have the swell to yourself when the BAF'ers come by not to mention the SUPs, kiters, sailboats, barges and who knows who else.

We all share the water and every sailor should know the rules (such as SUPs actually have ROW over windsurfers, but don't tell them).

As to no legal claims I would like to keep it that way. In MOST areas "the law" has left us alone. But since they tend to bunch kiters with us their behavior also reflects on us. If you didn't know SUP'rs have to have a PFD AND a permit! I for one don't want them taking a closer look at us.

Oh yeah I don't get non-advanced sailors windsurfing out of the hatch (or similar) places either. Maybe somebody can explain this to me....
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