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Is BHO getting paranoid?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2893

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps in those halcyon days you didn't say rabble rousing things like this........

feuser wrote:
They [right wingers] just substitute 'Liberal' for the N-word - the rest remains the same.

.........while separately telling us that it is a tragedy that we live in an increasingly belligerent society without unity. Irony anyone?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2893

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
mrgybe, how conveniently you look away and ignore Republicans on the national and state levels that have tried endlessly to fight and kill the ACA and delay its implementation.

The Administration knew from Day 1 that it would meet Republican resistance to ACA and should have planned accordingly. However, the delay is not caused by that resistance. It is a consequence of push back from the business community who are floundering with 17,500 pages of confusing regulation. A chaotic roll-out and postponement three months before the deadline. Total incompetence.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14614

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect the huge, in-his-face union pushback on the OCA is a big impetus for the delay, too. It threatens the mid-term elections very significantly ... we hope.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
Perhaps in those halcyon days you didn't say rabble rousing things like this........

feuser wrote:
They [right wingers] just substitute 'Liberal' for the N-word - the rest remains the same.

.........while separately telling us that it is a tragedy that we live in an increasingly belligerent society without unity. Irony anyone?


Yes, the language used in the discourse, exemplified by TR, is an example for the lack of civility I spoke about. I don't think pointing that out makes me a mud slinger just as I don't think that those who acknowledge the existence of racism are racist.

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http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2893

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are smart enough to know that it is entirely different to point out the existence of racism than it is to use accusations of racism and hate as a crutch to prop up one's own point of view. It is not racism or hate to disagree with a black president's policies......despite the best efforts of those on this forum and elsewhere who relentlessly try to make that case and to perpetuate racial divisions in this country. They are destructive people who deserve to be called out. They are worse than the worst of those they accuse.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3753
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spend 7 days in da Gorge, and Oregon Coast wearing out my 3.7.
Return to office to another all-time high on the S&P Very Happy
Bard...when was the last time you sailed Pistol River? Maybe the best sailing spot I've ever been to...and that includes Hookipa.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5570

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An entirely reasonable suggestion is made:

Quote:
It is not racism or hate to disagree with a black president's policies......


which I don't think that anyone would disagree with. Somehow I lost the reasoned disagreement of policies in this language:

Quote:
incompetence of this administration ... Experienced managers know that large scale projects are usually more complex than they at first appear. They make allowances for those unforeseen complexities when promising delivery and when making resourcing decisions. Inexperienced and incompetent managers are surprised by lack of progress late in the game and have to request embarrassing postponements. In no other sphere of life would this type of incompetence be tolerated,


The amount of spittle coming off the page somehow hides the clarity of the metrics that are used to reach this conclusion, and the suggestions for improvement. Of course the facts--that ACA seems to be reducing costs in the states like New York and California that are working with it, that the Republicans have tried not merely to repeal it over 40 times, but to eliminate all funding for implementation, or that the regulatory process is inherently slow--are omitted. It may well be that a better team could do a better job--but a reasoned argument to that effect is missing.

Returning to race--and the instant attacks by the right when racially discriminatory policies are implemented. It is clear that this society is less discriminatory than it was 50 years ago during the Freedom rides. But racism has turned into a more subtle form, racism 101. While most polls show that true bigots represent a fairly small portion of the populace, the degree of bias is pervasive, and particularly strong among Republicans:

Quote:
More Americans are expressing explicit anti-black attitudes now than in 2008, and that sentiment could cost President Obama on Election Day, according to a new Associated Press poll.

Fifty-one percent of those polled explicitly expressed negative attitudes towards blacks, compared to 48 percent who did in 2008. The AP also measured "implicit racial attitudes" and found that 56 percent of Americans exhibited anti-black attitudes, up from 48 percent in 2008.

In measuring explicit racial attitudes towards blacks, the survey asked whether respondents agreed with statements about different racial groups and asked respondents whether they felt words like "friendly," "hardworking" and "violent" described blacks, whites and Hispanics.

To measure implicit racial attitudes, the survey showed respondents a photo of a black, white or Hispanic person, and then asked them to rate their feelings toward a Chinese character shown immediately after the first picture. According to the AP, studies have before shown that respondents transfer their feelings from the first photo onto the character.

The AP analysis of the survey results also indicated that Obama could lose 5 percentage points from the popular vote on Election Day because of those anti-black attitudes. But he stands to gain about 3 percentage points from positive attitudes toward blacks, according to the AP, resulting in a potential net loss of 2 percentage points in the popular vote. That two-point margin could cost the president the election in a race as close as this one.

Seventy-nine percent of Republicans expressed explicit racial prejudice,

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/264447-poll-racial-attitudes-toward-blacks-could-cost-obama-at-the-polls#ixzz2ZnGx9yXv


I point this out for two reasons. First, many of the attacks on Trayvon Martin and Obama over the Zimmerman verdict were overtly racist. I agree with the verdict, and think that the crime was overcharged, and a well argued manslaughter charge could have been sustained. Of course, it is entirely possible that racism was involved--that Zimmerman followed Martin because he was African American, in the "wrong neighborhood", and dressed in a hoodie. He has been described by right-wing pundits as a wanna-be thug. In fact, his parents have been among the most dignified players on the stage, and it is exceedingly rare that the black son of two such people pursues the thug life. I've taught some.

Second, the fake outrage about meta-data is discriminatory. Whether it is triggered by racial animus to Obama, or hysterical searching for a scandal is immaterial. To blame Obama for policies implemented by a different Congress at the behest of Bush--after he was slapped down by the courts for pursuing them without legal authority--is dishonest and unfair. To pretend otherwise fools no one.

I have left for another day the racially discriminatory efforts of the Republicans to curtail minority voting by any means possible, and the posting of such insensitive topics as "Obama phones."

Reasoned criticism that avoids such tropes is, of course, welcome--and will be treated in kind.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2893

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for reinforcing my observation...........and for those, including the previous poster, who don't appear to know what "incompetent" means, here is the Oxford dictionary definition.....

"not having or showing the necessary skills to do something successfully"
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
Spend 7 days in da Gorge, and Oregon Coast wearing out my 3.7.
Return to office to another all-time high on the S&P Very Happy
Bard...when was the last time you sailed Pistol River? Maybe the best sailing spot I've ever been to...and that includes Hookipa.


Pistol River, or the Cape, too? I love that spot... Too bad my trip didn't work out (again) this year. I am green with envy Wink

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3753
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
Spend 7 days in da Gorge, and Oregon Coast wearing out my 3.7.
Return to office to another all-time high on the S&P Very Happy
Bard...when was the last time you sailed Pistol River? Maybe the best sailing spot I've ever been to...and that includes Hookipa.


Pistol River, or the Cape, too? I love that spot... Too bad my trip didn't work out (again) this year. I am green with envy Wink

The Cape wasnt happening because there was no south or west swell. So the NW wind swell at Pistol is what we had. I did manage to snap my Streamlined tendon in some head high beach break..my little Oregon souvenir. Much respect to the mighty Pacific.
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