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modulating jibe radius
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14054

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
Before this thread, I don't think I've ever consciously contemplated modulating my jybe radius. Question Question You're overthinking it. You need to feel it.

Exactly. That's probably why my jibing progress surged after I learned to carve swell at speed without thinking about it. Only then could I correct errors and handle the rig properly, let alone dodge any obstacles, without being distracted by my feet.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

Michael, you're not going to force everyone here to kowtow to your insistence that your way is the only way to jibe or to learn how to jibe. Your only chance is through persuasion, not force, mandate, or belittlement. This ain't New Yawk City, and not every reader here travels to the Caribbean every year.

If you can find someone who wants to take his time to video my sailing, feel free to do so; it's a free river. One caveat: s/he must stay the hell out of my way. My sailing time is the most precious time I have on this planet, and deliberately interfering with it is hazardous. Why you give a damn escapes me, though.


Let's start with why I care: Windsurfers from around the country come to this forum seeking information. Given the challenges of the sport that information can be very important. But because you have spent almost twenty years deluging the internet with your version of windsurfing technique, circa 1988 (we can go back into rec.windsurfing archives and find you making the same arguments in 1995) it's important that people be told that there are much better techniques, and much better ways to learn. It turns out that the best windsurfing instructors in the world have all learned a thing or two in the last twenty years. You don't want to hear it (what foot goes in the footstraps first, Mike?) but people interested in improving their windsurfing will benefit. Yes there are many approaches to learning to jibe. Not surprisingly, the high quality ones that I'm aware of (ABK, Dasher, Peter Hart, Cribb etc) have a lot in common. I have seen no worse advice than yours.

As for the video: show that you can do it. Show that you know what you're talking about. Let people see what you look like windsurfing. I would think you'd be confident that people would say "yes that guy knows how to sail" and "look at that jibe I'd like to be able to do that" and so on. But we've only had the one video of you
http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23986
in which you looked like just another intermediate sailor with weak form (I'll buy your argument about the dismount.) A guy who should be taking lessons, not giving advice.

This ain't New Yawk City? Damn, I didn't realize that. I sail on Long Island, where we have all kinds of wind and water states. And when, as I do on occasion, work with someone on their jibes, we sail at the most conducive spot that's convenient, because we're not idiots.

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
Before this thread, I don't think I've ever consciously contemplated modulating my jybe radius. Question Question You're overthinking it. You need to feel it.


I agree. I think what we do is jibe as tightly or broadly as feels right, which is a response to the conditions and the equipment.

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14054

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
it's important that people be told that there are much better techniques

I have seen no worse advice than yours.

As for the video: show that you can do it.

This ain't New Yawk City? Damn, I didn't realize that. I sail on Long Island

Sorry, Michael, but I do not agree that the jibes you describe, involving more than half a dozen unnecessary hand and foot position changes, are superior. Others can decide for themselves. MANY of those "others" comment virtually every windy day where I sail about the fun and flash of both my reaches and my exceptionally tight and fast jibes (completion rates vary significantly session to session with multiple medical issues and one bad habit of late).

My NYC comment had nothing to do with windsurfing venues, everything to do with attitude. Barking orders (among many others is "show that you can do it") is a prime third grade example, and endlessly referring to some ephemeral video proves nothing. You guys whine when I say "Prove it" after someone lies, yet demand that I "Prove it" when I make a simple statement, even one about my own personal and professional lives.

You claim you've seen no worse advice than mine. Prove it; what part of my SUGGESTED jibe advice is invalid? How is an endless and highly complicated series of hand and foot changes so superior to something so much simpler and so much less subject to real world interruptions? Why do these instructors you keep listing display techniques so very different from one another (e.g., foot and hand shifting)? Why has no one yet, in 20 years of trying, provided even one technical argument showing that any aspect of BFF is inferior to FFF? Why does no one similarly whine when other sailors here say they also BFF in the conditions I normally sail in?

Why must windsurfing always be [i]your way or the highway?[/i]


Last edited by isobars on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:15 am; edited 2 times in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14054

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
I think what we do is jibe as tightly or broadly as feels right, which is a response to the conditions and the equipment.

As I've said many times. I think you just wanna argue, rather than resolve any real differences in technique.
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ramps



Joined: 07 May 2000
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, the internet is full now.
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramps said:

Quote:

OK, the internet is full now.



+1!
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1336

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote ...'OK, the internet is full now.'

Except for videos of 'expert posters' showing us how good their gybing skills really are!
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daviddk



Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would anyone do BFF? It makes no sense at all.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5778

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that our expert from the Great Northwest goes for BFF to avoid the inevitable catapult if he doesn't. He'll be chiming in momentarily to clarify things for those of us that don't get the picture.
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