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modulating jibe radius
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2399

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keeping the carve alive and flipping the sail. a bit more complex than rubbing you stomach and patting your head at the same time. okay, way more. but the concept remains true.

carve, crouched knees bent. when the board is pointing directly downwind, you will have already started flipping your sail. hold your feet steady, finish the sail flip, then bear down on the boom as though it was a crutch. switch your feet. not covered in most video's. not approved by many instructors. but it works.

also, since you are trying to do jibes. what's to stop you from trying a few duck jibes? those that have concurrently tried some with all others, end up being successful with ducks first. dunno why more people don't try. concrete sequential is burned into our culture????

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14032

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
getting high sided, falling outside your radius means you are not committing to your inside carving foot, the one on the inside of your turn. Place more steady weight there, using your lower body, not the chest or shoulders.

Yes. To do that, I find it helpful to thrust my hips both into the turn and towards the front of the board ... IF I have enough speed that this doesn't bury the lee/downwind rail.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14032

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
also, since you are trying to do jibes. what's to stop you from trying a few duck jibes? those that have concurrently tried some with all others, end up being successful with ducks first. dunno why more people don't try. concrete sequential is burned into our culture????

Apparently so. I began hearing that advice for over 30 years, so there must be a lot to it.
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watermonkey



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Possibly, you are describing two separate problems.
1. getting high sided, falling outside your radius means you are not committing to your inside carving foot, the one on the inside of your turn. Place more steady weight there, using your lower body, not the chest or shoulders.
2. falling back means you are too far back on your board. Get the backfoot up at the front straps, but not atop them.


Same problem - I'm getting thrown forward, but rotated to facing the sky, possibly because I get tripped by the front strap on the way. Regardless, thinking about (obsessively) more: let's assume I'm not bending my knees nearly enough and don't have enough MFP, through some combination of not over-sheeting, not tilting the rig forward enough, not pushing down on the front hand. So the board isn't staying glued to the water and I get launched. I'll work on those and see if I can roll in more gradually...finesse is really elusive with this stuff.

jingebritsen wrote:
hold your feet steady, finish the sail flip, then bear down on the boom as though it was a crutch. switch your feet.

also, since you are trying to do jibes. what's to stop you from trying a few duck jibes? those that have concurrently tried some with all others, end up being successful with ducks first. dunno why more people don't try. concrete sequential is burned into our culture????


I definitely prefer switching feet after the flip...when I get that far. Duck jibes after I fix the above - I've got one major nose repair on this board already...
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]
Quote:
jingebritsen wrote :also, since you are trying to do jibes. what's to stop you from trying a few duck jibes? those that have concurrently tried some with all others, end up being successful with ducks first. dunno why more people don't try. concrete sequential is burned into our culture????


I think it might be a bit more intimidating because it's a relatively more radical sail transition than a rotational "flip" of the sail compared to a duck jibe. The two things I got from doing duck jibes were having to start the sail transition sooner and committing to the rail pressure which is quite incidental since you're switching your feet after the sail flip. It's really easy to practice to duck jibes on land and once the movements become fluid and you're comfortable with early commitment then you're well on your way to completing ducks and even more so nailing your regular jibes.

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Last edited by noshuzbluz on Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 540

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of things can go wrong in a jibe, so let me ask a few questions first:

When you get launched to the outside or forward, how much sail pressure do you have? Is the sail pulling you off almost like a catapult? Or is the sail light in your hands?

What kind of wind are you sailing in when trying to jibe and getting thrown? Marginal, just barely planing on large sails? Or SF & Corpus-typical 25+ conditions?

How fast are you usually going compared to other (better) sailors at your spot? Before and when you enter a jibe, do you slow down, or do you try to get as much speed as possible?
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2376

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also learned the duck jibe the same time as my regular jibes, and the duck jibe was easier for me to learn, boat sailing background. All boats duckjibe.
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watermonkey



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
Lots of things can go wrong in a jibe, so let me ask a few questions first:

When you get launched to the outside or forward, how much sail pressure do you have? Is the sail pulling you off almost like a catapult? Or is the sail light in your hands?


When getting launched, the sail is not yet light...this is before I'm straight downwind. The rig does not slam on the outside and immediately stop the board - it (board/rig) generally keeps going, sometimes 15m away depending on the speed. There's swimming involved to retrieve it.

boardsurfr wrote:

What kind of wind are you sailing in when trying to jibe and getting thrown? Marginal, just barely planing on large sails? Or SF & Corpus-typical 25+ conditions?


I'm at Coyote Point (SF), about as far out as the first buoy, and upwind to about that breaker with the guys fishing. Let's call it 18-22, on a 5.5...I'd go smaller if I was way out toward the channel.

boardsurfr wrote:

How fast are you usually going compared to other (better) sailors at your spot? Before and when you enter a jibe, do you slow down, or do you try to get as much speed as possible?


Heading out (port tack), facing into the chop and upwind, I'm slower...most people slowly pull away from me. On the way back in, sailing maybe 20-deg off the direction of chop, I'm closer to their speed. I usually only attempt jibes on the latter - port tack to get upwind, starboard to lose it. Wink

I'm trying to carry speed on approach but I'm not at top speed. I'm admittedly holding back a bit since higher speed = harder crash if it's to the outside.

So you see the issue here - I'm trying to find the point where I'm not railing so hard to burn off too much speed on entry, but enough to avoid the outside launch. Since I'm flying forward, face up, head first, I have no way to even get an arm out and dive in a bit. I'm seriously worried about a neck injury.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2399

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i yell crouch to those with jibing difficulties more often than anything else. speed is your friend. don't hold back. do you have a short wide board? counter intuitive, if you do, carve harder, flip earlier. view the duck jibe tutorials, visualize doing them. i think they are the key to unlearning the late sail flip, and the lack of mast foot pressure.

short wide boards offer great planing power, but glide poorly with little to no power applied.

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paulf.



Joined: 21 Mar 1996
Posts: 316

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The crouch thing can help, but not if you just sit down. The ABK tip that got me over the hump is that the knee bend/crouch is really so you can lean ON the boom, rather than pulling on it at any point.
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