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New Quiver For Slalom Board
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rangerider



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Ezzy lion 9.5 and 7.5. Both will rig well on SDM or RDM masts. I haven't tried the Ezzy masts but I hear they are great, still not sure about an RDM mast for a big sail. I was blasting yesterday on the Ultrasonic 147 with the 9.5 in 20+ gusty conditions. They are very forgiving sails but I'm not really sure if they are as fast at the top end as a cammed Severne sail for example. The roller cams with this sail haven't hurt my mast at all and it takes me 20 seconds to pop the cams on the mast, no big deal.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

catsailor500 wrote:
Alright, sounds great. Right now I definitely can't swing for a carbon boom- I'll save that for later. The Cheetah definitely sounds good too, I always liked nocam sails, but was talked out of it earlier in the thread when I was thinking about only getting one sail, but I think if I'm getting two the range on them should be fine. Still thinking 9.5/7.5, and matching an Ezzy 490 bottom and top and then also having a 430 base for the 7.5

Can't beet the Ezzy masts! Stick with them because you may decide to widen your sail and board quiver. Just make sure you mix and match the right tops and bottoms so you don't end up with too soft or too stiff. On the Ezzy site they'll answer your questions right away.
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 508

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second posting your question on the Ezzy site. They will give you the correct answers within a day or two. Well worth it. They will even suggest which sail sizes you could use to cover the widest range of use with minimum number of sails. They are unbelievably helpful and, as far as I can tell, trueful and don't just give you marketing mumbo-jumbo. They will also suggest minimum number of mast parts or you can use their mast configurator chart to figure it out for yourself (maybe you already did).

Good luck and happy sailing!
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paccorti



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using my 490 RDM in the 8.5 Ezzy for 3 seasons now. I did that AFTER I broke my PowerX ZFree 75% 490 SDM mast in the Ezzy (ever try to swim with a broken mast). I'm usually pretty good about checking that the mast top and bottom are seated properly but I don't recall in that case so I won't condem PowerX or an SDM mast.

I was wondering how you were going to rig the smaller sail... I like that in your situation you can mix and match the Ezzy tops and bottoms. I'd seek Ezzy's guidance on the best combinations for the smaller sail (if you go that route). When I bought my Infinity the prevailing opinion seemed to be that for large sails (8.5+ ish) that CAMs are good to hold the shape. In my case the Infinity replaced an 8.5 Retro (shown here). I do really like the Freerides (Cheetah's now) in the smaller sizes. Look at how much profile my 6.5 has without any load. She's a beauty. Now if I could only get that 15 year old PowerX 30% Carbon SDM mast to bite the dust I'd be happy (just kidding).

Peter

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catsailor500



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, emailed Ezzy and they recommend a 490 top, and then a 490 and 430 base. I think right now the decision is between the Lion (cammed) and the Cheetah (no cam). Could I maybe get the Lion 9.5 and the Cheetah 7.5? I would personally lead towards no cams for simplicity and weight reasons, but I don't have much experience with them.
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paccorti



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly what I'd do. I'd get the cammed Lion 9.5 and the no-cam cheetah 7.5. I think Ezzy was the one to originally recommend to me that larger sails should be cammed. What the heck; ask them that too. They'll probably say something like, "for earlier planning the Lion will beat the cheetah". Boy, start talking about animals like this and it gets weird...

rangerider what do you think? Do you like the cams for your 7.5 Lion?

BTW my Ezzy rigging instructions say that you can sail the Infinity with the cams removed. I assume the Lion can do that too so maybe you don't have to really choose?

Peter
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catsailor500



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, I'm sure Icould sail it w/o the cams, it would probably lose a bit of power, right? ie worse than a 9.5 sail designed for no cams would be. My only issue left with cams is the wear on the mast- I'd really rather not worry about it.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked myself: why is everybody only praising the cambered sails and nobody is saying anything about they're drawbacks that are espatialy annoying for not very experienced sailors?! And then I realized I was doing the same thing until just less then a year ago. I got so convinced about their superiority from posters on this forum that I made the mistake to buy not one not two but tree cambered sails in the most sensitive stage of my windsurfing progress - the transition to short boards. I got 6.5 and 7.5 Infinities and an 8.5 Switchblade . I struggled with those sails for a year and a half trying to learn water starting , fast tacking and carve gybing. All this time I kept praising them on this forum like many others and blamed myself for being a slow learner. The salvation came when I put my hands on a good no cam sail a 7.4 Ka Koyote . I got rid of the Infinities since then and just kept the Switchblade for a backup.
Now what was the problem? It was that constant shape that the cambered sails hold that people are so proud about. That shape keeps the sail powered to some extend all the time and makes flipping the sail in transitions much harder espatialy overpowered then a no cam sail that depowers when you let go with your back hand and flips effortlessly . That shape also makes cam sails feel heavier then they actually are which doesn't help with water starting, up hauling , hell even with caring it out of the water. Those sails don't care if you need a break they just pull you like a freight train , while the no cam sail waits for your command in much more forgiving way. People also mistake this constant pull with better early planning and I realized that a powerfull powering up of the no cam gives it a better acceleration on the start. Cam sails are designed for straight line overpowered racing in heavi chop and this is what they do best, for everything else they suck. It is also a lie that roll cams don't damage the mast- then why are the spots on my Ezzy mast where the cams rolled so rough? Because its not the cam, it is the fine sand that gets everywhere that's grinding !
Also good modern no cam sails have a beautiful deep shape when powered and don't need a stap at the foot to hold it in place unlike the cam ones and the best thing is they loose it when you want unlike the cam sails. Can you tell me what's wrong with the beautiful belly of that 9.0 Retro that was rigged on a wrong mast on top of that when this picture was taken. Keep it simple- stay with no cams , get a smaller board in near future and your progress will be fast and painless .



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rangerider



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the Lion to be so superior to my first two sails that I bought (North Natural 6.6 and 8.1) that when I went to decide between a Cheetah 7.5 and the Lion I chose to go with the Lion. I don't have sand here so maybe that's why the cams are no problem for my masts. I don't have any reason to disagree with adywind on the merits of camless sails. I chose a cammed sail because I was getting killed by gusts and lulls and was always falling off the plane, then a gust would hit and I'd go face first into the sail. The lion seems to even out the power delivery very well and I have had a lot more fun since buying it. I don't have any doubt that there are other sails that do the same. The OP asked about a quiver for his slalom board though, not freeride/wave/style. If you prioritize speed, stability, and early planing in gusty conditions then (as Tim Ortleib at Ezzy told me) go with the lion - I have no doubt there are better sails for maneuvers.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adywind - I am happy that you've had a good experience with the KA Koyote. Its a great sail.

I'd say, once you sail powered up using rigs in the 8+ metre range, things are quite different. I would not wish having to learn how to waterstart or gybe using one of these on my worst enemies. Fuller, smaller and relatively more powerful no-cam sails in the 6-7 metre range are much more accessible for that, although much much, much slower. Especially the upper wind range of a 3+ cam proper race sail is something else altogether. I would not make the cam/no-cam question a life decision.

To the OP - I am selling my 2011 8.5m - kept it around as a spare all last season. Send me a PM if you're interested.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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