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Pros/Cons of 4 vs. 5 batten sails
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scottwerden



Joined: 11 Jul 1999
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Pros/Cons of 4 vs. 5 batten sails Reply with quote

New Ezzy wave sails are 4 batten. Seems that most wave sails are 5 batten. I can see it being lighter but it seems to me it will risk having an unstable draft. Anyone out there have an opinion on this (as if I have to ask)?
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hilton08



Joined: 02 Apr 2000
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 4 batten Ezzy Panther Elite is somewhat unique when compared to the 4 batten wave sails coming from other sailmakers. Sails like the Naish Chopper and the Maui Sails Mutant are much lower aspect as if the designers just chopped off the top of a 5 batten sail so it would rig on a shorter mast.
The Elite has nearly the same mast and boom dimensions as the previous 5 batten Panther and the newer 5 batten Ezzy Tiger wave sails, but with one less batten. The result is a much lighter feel, and a softer, smoother rotation of the sail. The Elite may not have the unlimited top end of Ezzy's 5 batten designs, but it is still extremely stable.
Both are great sails, but I think the 4 batten Elite is a much better maneuver oriented wave and freestyle sail. The Tiger is a better straight line bump and jump/freeride sail.
Ezzy made a great video about the development of the Elite that is worth watching if you haven't already.
http://vimeo.com/43310858
If David didn't believe the Elite was "better" than the 5 batten wave sails, he never would have released it.
If you are in the Gorge, you should be able to demo both and decide for yourself. I have been sailing Ezzys for years and am sold on the new Elite.
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting video.

"people are surprised how good this sail is. you need to order it."


hahaha
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surfersteve



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been sailing the Naish Choppers for the past few weeks in up and down, holey, and steady/solid winds. I have nothing but good things to say about them. I was concerned about stability and power, but the opposite is true. Must be the design. They are very nimble, get on a plane quickly on the initial puff when some others around me have been slower to do so, feel very light and effortless on the sail flip, and don't have the bulk of a comparably-sized sail with about a 1/2 meter off the top based on the size you use. The Chopper lets me effectively sail a 1/2 size smaller with the same power - a 4.3 is really the power of a 4.7 (med) and a 4.7 really sails like a 5.2 (lrg). I can't speak for any other manufacturers, but I would highly recommend the Chopper and suggest you give a 4-batten a try.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3049
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

only have the 4.0 Elite, my other Ezzys are Panther Limited or Tigers (small sizes) , they all sail similar.

hilton08s post would mirror mine, had I written it first, so what he said.

and will add these comments, the Elite s recommended size mast is more a combo of rx/340/370 to really glean the performance and utilize the mast downhaul adjustment tool as it comes .

I feel and this deserves to be a comment rather than distraction that the 5 battens as well like hilton said, do just a little better when really wound up.

If one had a quiver of Elites it would not be an issue. The larger Elites I would need to sail before making judgement on.

In the areas of intended improvement over 5 batten Ezzys the Elite is indeed the cats meow

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bjamin



Joined: 19 Jul 2000
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the question should be, why have five battens vs four in a wave sail? Why have battens at all? (note that Kauli Seadi is now frequently seen on a 3 batten sail at Hookipa). Battens add stability to a fabric/film and/or a design that otherwise lacks it. Newer sail films developed over the past few years offer more multi-dimensional stability (at lower weight) than older films, and a design that also incorporates stretch control seams (such as Goya sails) has inherent extra stability as a result. Therefore the fifth batten becomes redundant and the extra weight/cost/seams required by the extra batten are not advantageous. I've been using four batten 2013 Goya Banzais all winter on Maui (biggest sail 4.7) and find the light weight and easy handling combined with low end power to be pretty amazing. Is this less stable than five batten sails of previous years - such as a 5.3 five batten 2012 Eclipse which used to be my biggest sail? Not that I've noticed and the 4.7 is 1.5 lbs (at least) lighter and works in similar wind (for me, but I don't mind slogging some when the waves are nice, and I prefer to ride the smallest lightest wave sail that "works"). I wouldn't be surprised if four batten wave/gorge sails soon become the norm and eventually this conversation shifts to whether three batten wave sails are stable enough (at least KS & JH seem to think so).
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3049
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.4windsurf.it/2013/06/12/hsm-kauli-new-signature-sail-ks3/

yup

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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, since nobody has mentioned it. Northwave Surflites are 4 batten
sails, and they are sweet, especially in gusty conditions. They also
seem to me to have much more range than other wave sails of similar ilk.
I can use a smaller sail than most on the water or a larger sail than most
on the water. It makes rigging the perfect sail less stressful. ;*)

I am not affiliated with Northwave, but I do buy (and ride) their sails.

-Craig
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hilton08



Joined: 02 Apr 2000
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bjamin wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if four batten wave/gorge sails soon become the norm and eventually this conversation shifts to whether three batten wave sails are stable enough.


3 batten wave sails are the future and the past...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ART-ADVANCED-RIG-TECHNOLOGY-WAVE-WING-3-9-METER-WINDSURFING-SAILBOARD-SAIL-/231000241371?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c8aff4db
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I echo craig's comments about Northwave Surflites. I have them in 4.2 and 3.7. Great 4 batten sails, have been around for nearly forever.

Also, I have an Ultra Profile prototype 7.5 (!) sail from back in the 80's that has 3 (THREE) battens! there is not much that is new under the sun.
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