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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14308

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
I would do a little research before I pluck down money on an unknown instructor.

That's why I flew to HI to take lessons from Alan Cadiz.

Useless then, as I've explained before.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 709

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
beaglebuddy wrote:
johnl wrote:



Kai??? As in Kai Lenny????

You know how many haole's named Kai there are in Hawaii?


Obviously not. Sad His is the only one I have heard. Then again it has been a few years since I have been there..


It's got to be in the thousands, there are a few in my neighborhood but mostly they are kids or young people.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this all getting a little too serious?

Got to agree with Zirtaeb's point that when many of us started windsurfing (mostly from surfing backgrounds) there was no instruction, no videos, loads of contradictory advice (what's changed there?), lousy and unsuitable equipment, and just a load of fired up enthusiastic folk all hurtling and splatterpulting all over the shop! But what do you know - we were having the best fun in ages!

I'm just one of thousands who's never had a lesson in his life (too proud and independent) (and big headed Wink ) but who just mucked in with what we all saw others attempting to do. It worked, and we all got there in the end, refining things over the years to reach a satisying standard.

No doubt we wasted years and lots of effort, and could have done it all so much faster and easier in todays way of thinking, but perhaps it's no coincidence that those earlier days were the so called golden age of enthusiastic participation in the sport - something that is clearly no longer the case.

Anyway, I ask myself, what pleasure would there be left in life, and where would there be left to go, if we knew it all too soon? (Here's to another 10 years of trying to nail that... er, well, mind your own business! Laughing
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1220

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:

I'm just one of thousands who's never had a lesson in his life (too proud and independent) (and big headed Wink ) but who just mucked in with what we all saw others attempting to do. It worked, and we all got there in the end.


But "we" didn't all get there. Plenty of people stopped windsurfing because it was harder than they were up for. And while it's good self-congratulatory fun to pat ourselves on the backs for being accomplished windsurfers, there is in fact excellent instructional guidance available now (and better gear) than existed decades ago. There are teaching techniques that surpass what was available then...of course there are, that's what happens when smart talented people apply themselves to continuous improvement. There are still plenty of people who love the sport who have not been able to crack the planing jibe, and who could with competent instruction. Trotting out "well this worked for me back in the days of the tie-on boom" might be useful for perspective, but it's hardly likely to be the best advice.

Lastly, there is plenty to learn after BAF windsurfing once the jibe is secured. For those people who find learning new techniques exciting and challenging, the sooner they connect with good teaching programs, the sooner they'll be climbing new skill ladders.

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1182
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree PP. While some people can learn/do just about anything on their own that is not true of the masses. While it may be nice to sit back and pat ourselves on the back we are in fact biting ourselves off at the knee. Like new sails, boards, masts, booms etc.? Companies don't stay in business selling a few of them to those few who learned on their own. They like to sell thousands of them. So we need to do all we can to encourage new people and help people develop. Otherwise the gear you have today better last you the rest of your life.

Of course there is always kiteboarding and SUP. They seem to have no problem growing......
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Michael, and I'm noit decrying those who wish to be instructed in how to do things properly, BUT, it all boils down to a persons character traits.

I, and many others I mix with, prefer to do things on our terms, and though that may ultimately hold us back so that we may never achieve greatness, we do, at least, have satisfaction in our (perhaps) modest achievements.

To make the point; before windsurfing I was a committed sea kayaker (self taught) and sometimes fell foul of the 'establishment'. (Coast guards, self important 'advanced' coaches, etc.) In the 1970's I used to annually cross the English Channel alone, camp, and return the following day, until by E.U. law it became illegal to enter French waters, in 1979.

On one such occasion I was intercepted in mid Channel by a fishing boat, the skipper having been contacted by Dover Coasrt guard. I was doing nothing illegal at that time and it ended with me instructing the skipper to tell the Coast guard, I would decide what I did in the open sea, and would take full responsibility for my safety. (The skipper relayed that, then winced, and held the radio phone out towards me! We both burst out laughing, and I could just imagine the explosion!)

I relate this to try and make clear that, to some of us, the WAY we do things (provided we become competent) is more important than what might have been achieved with proper guidance and instruction

Handsome is, as handsome does after all. In the words of the song, some of us want to be able to say, 'I did it my way.'
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you G.T.. Like you, I'm way too independent to have someone telling me what to do, and I like the challenge of working things out at my own pace. I realize that my approach isn't for everyone, and I have no issue with others taking lessons to both learn and improve. That said, I firmly believe that taking lessons won't make you a windsurfer. I've seen so many folks spend hundreds of dollars on lessons without success. It's not that they couldn't progress, they simply lacked the interest and drive to invest in the sport.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1220

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
I, and many others I mix with, prefer to do things on our terms, and though that may ultimately hold us back so that we may never achieve greatness, we do, at least, have satisfaction in our (perhaps) modest achievements.
// In the words of the song, some of us want to be able to say, 'I did it my way.'


If you think that people who have learned any aspect of windsurfing with instruction have less satisfaction than the self taught, you're mistaken.

When I finally broke down and began taking lessons, I was a self taught windsurfer who could tack and jibe (ugly but dry) and waterstart. After my first two day clinic, my overwhelming response was "I can't believe I waited so long to do this!" My best friend and sailing buddy (also of the "I want the satisfaction of doing this myself" and "lessons are for wimps") did a 180 (ha!) after sailing with me in the months following the clinic. He was in the next one.

One of the advantages of clinics and systemized instruction like ABK is they not only work with you on succeeding, they teach in depth the WHY behind every aspect of the technique (which really comes to play if you move on to freestyle, when you want the gear to act unusually yet under control.)

If someone likes self teaching in and of itself, then by all means they should (this is recreation after all!) But if someone wants to excel at jibing, professional lessons are a huge help. They aren't a cheat sheet, they don't jibe for you, and people who learn from them are every bit as stoked. I still remember my very first jibe (self taught) and the first day I was planing through jibe after jibe (thank you Dasher). They are both thrilling memories. I don't value the self taught stuff more, not in the slightest.

You'll notice that professional athletes all have coaches. World class champions, they are looking for every possible edge. As was I when it came to jibing.

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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote; 'If you think that people who have learned any aspect of windsurfing with instruction have less satisfaction than the self taught, you're mistaken,'

That was NOT what I said! I said that MY satisfaction comes from self discovery, the converse being that I personally would get far less satisfaction from being taught. I was NOT speaking for others.

I know, and admitted, that my approach means not reaching ones full potential. I accept that, but in no way does that dampen the will to tackle things. To suggest that given a lesson or two, and an improvement in performance, I would suddenly see the light (as your self taught friend did) is not correct.

My motivation comes from targets other than professionally executed gibing or other 'tricks', and mainly from going places. ( Longboard sea crossings and such.) Anything beyond the necessary means to achieve such ends wouldn't necessarily make my fires burn any brighter.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14308

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
When I finally broke down and began taking lessons, I was a self taught windsurfer ... "I can't believe I waited so long to do this!"

I saw my first WS board at my first lesson, bought it at the end of the lesson, and spent the next solid 4-5 hours trying to sail it in significant whitecaps ... probably 18-20 mph ... something way out of the scope of that intro lesson. All I could see was the potential for dirt bikes minus the pain.
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