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dvCali
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 1314
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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zirtaeb wrote: | That's why I keep talking about rear strap placement.
Most slalom boards, the most back position is around 8" off the tail.
The Tabou I have is 5.5" off the tail, and I moved it up to 7", probably going back in 1/2" increments to see if it still balances out.
It it's comfortable, I guarantee it's slow in top end.
I think you're lightweight like me, so straps back on most boards, but that distance can change from 5.5" to 8" off the tail, which makes a huge difference.
All my other freerace and slalom boards have the rear strap setting as far back as possible, with the exception of the Tabou.
JPSlalom84, Exocet Speed Slider 95, JP SuperSport 109.
Do you ever sail with JRob? He's a speed Garmin sailor too. |
I am 70-72 Kg, kind of light weight. And yep, strap placement is something to try but I am not so sure it will show up on GPS. Right now I am one position to the rear-most, and I am moving one step forward. It is 1 cm more but it might make a difference especially with the deep cut outs the Patrik got.
Nope I don't think I know JRob. The Garmin seemed to match my Lycos GT-11 but sometimes it seems to get stuck ... I'll take the GT-11 in the next days.
The Goldwing gave me the fasted speeds ever, 34 to 36 knots, but they re long gone. I am coming from Talon, and the Phoenix seems GPS faster and much more stable especially on a broad reach.
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dllee
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Conventional thinking is rear straps back for lighter weight rider's, straps forward for heavy weight rider's.
Rear straps back unweights the nose of the board, allowing the smallest possible planing surface at full speeds. It's not perfect for underpowered sailing.
Front straps forwards for planing out of jibes and maintaining planing in light wind holes. This gives a wide stance, center to center, for rider pitch control.
We're both 150 lbs.
If the board doesn't try to do a slight wheelie when your weight is slightly on the back foot, the rear strap is too far forwards. The wheelie is needed to lift the nose over chop at speed, your body shifting weight back to the back foot, then immediately shifting back to centered to lower the nose.
Any part of the bottom of the board that touch's the water at planing speed just behind the FRONT foot is unneeded drag, and kills top speed. The water line should be just about a foot in front of the rear strap, no more, when going for top speed.
I suspect the extra chord of the Phoenix makes it a bigger fin for length than the Talon or Gold Wings. Gotta run a shorter Phoenix than you did Talon or GW.
J Rob was the guy who sold me the JP Slalom 84, who always used a Garmin to check his speeds back in '08. He's 6'3" and 210 lbs., so went pretty fast for a rec sailor, but not quite my speeds.
I competed in 6 of the Speed Trial's they used to have back in the '90's around here, and always placed top third at worse.
I kinda slowed down, since turning 59 8 year's ago, when I tore a couple of tendons inside my left ankle, and haven't been able to run since then, as I can't push off that left foot at all.
Ah, to be young and fearless again.
I"m a bud of Vasco Mayer, who sails the Stick, and Sofien, Kevin K, and probably lots of fast sailors at the stick and Crissy, but haven't really sailed either in 12 years.....stuck at Berkeley with the old farts.
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dllee
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to do photo calculations on rear strap settings, but it looks like you're using around 6" off the tail for your back screw setting. That IS pretty far back, but if you are thinking of moving it forwards, it's likely you're looking for more stability in the board at speed.
I'd suggest you move the front straps forwards to widen the stance, possibly the mast track forward to widen the entire triangle, to get stability at speed, and keep the rear strap setting as is so you can slightly wheelie over wind swell as you pass over them. Pitch control is vital for top end speeds.
Big heavy guys have it naturally, which is why they're likely to be pretty fast if they are competent sailors, on any board.
We lightweights have to use more brains, be more balanced, and be able to adjust the pitch of the board as needed.
Probably, we should start a new thread if conversation keeps going.
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dvCali
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 1314
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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zirtaeb wrote: | Hard to do photo calculations on rear strap settings, but it looks like you're using around 6" off the tail for your back screw setting. That IS pretty far back, but if you are thinking of moving it forwards, it's likely you're looking for more stability in the board at speed.
I'd suggest you move the front straps forwards to widen the stance, possibly the mast track forward to widen the entire triangle, to get stability at speed, and keep the rear strap setting as is so you can slightly wheelie over wind swell as you pass over them. Pitch control is vital for top end speeds.
Big heavy guys have it naturally, which is why they're likely to be pretty fast if they are competent sailors, on any board.
We lightweights have to use more brains, be more balanced, and be able to adjust the pitch of the board as needed.
Probably, we should start a new thread if conversation keeps going. |
Main rational to move it forward 1cm in the back is not so much for stability (the board is extremely stable, even if air born or in high frequency chop) but for longitudinal trim. I am under the impression that when over-powered (i.e. when the board is as powered as it should) I tend to "dig" into the back ... we'll see what happens. Yesterday I moved the lines (probably less than 2 cm) and it made a difference!
But yes, I think we are kidnapping the where you sailed today thread!
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dllee
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Today Thursday, nice powered at 1:30 to well scared powered at 3, on the 100 Speedster and 5.8 Naish GrandPrix of around 2013. Wind readings at Berkeley only 16-22, average 18, and a few 180lbs sailors switched down to 5.2's, with the foil guys 155 lbs going 4.7-5.0.
Straps balanced nicely at 6.5 " from the tail, 23.5" spread of stance, track at 133, and automatic pitch control over the steep confused chop at Berkeley. Nose always stayed up, slight wheelie with a balanced stance, still the 32 Phoenix, which still feels less slippery, but more controllable than the old Gold Wings. One great feature of the Phoenix is the glide thru holes in the wind, when other sailors have trouble flying their sails (on waterstarts), just leaning on the front foot, standing up, and sheeting out a hair allows planing in what must be less than 12 mph breezes, with a 5.8 sail and 65 wide board.
Not totally wild about using a 5.8 GrandPrix in over 22 mph Berkeley sensor winds, as a 5.5 sure would have gone faster in the gusts.
Bernard was out at just before noon, planing on his 99 Falcon and 5.7 Severne, came in as I went out.
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lokomotiv
Joined: 08 Jun 2003 Posts: 16
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:01 am Post subject: Candlestick 7/28 |
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Thank you to vmaher2045, Dave, Alex and the others out at the Stick today for directions and pointers. Awesome day although I should have rigged at least one size smaller OPd on a 5.7 Vibe / 96L Gecko. See you there soon. Carlo
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tomg
Joined: 10 Apr 2000 Posts: 294
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Stick 27 and 29 |
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Both days few people out ... I wonder how good TI might be in these late July days ... wind is loosing strength ...[/quote]
Answer: TI Ripped all day yesterday (Thurs) - a few going out from 2pm till 7pm (when it finally came down (apparently)). I and several others totally lit up on 4.7s. ~4:30-6:30pm Nice rollers considering the flood tide.
I'd report on the amazing consistent wind and water at TI but don't want to be repetitious and redundant. Maybe I should only share the news when it sucks?
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bert
Joined: 10 Apr 2000 Posts: 665
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: Shoreline |
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9.5/big board hour long session at Shoreline on Friday in 10 mph wind..barely moving. It was a shitload of fun..can't wait to do it again
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dllee
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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5.2 and 98 liter FSW red board, red sail on Friday.
A little under powered, nice easy jumps, flat water with organized swell for a change. Smiles all around, no matter what you rigged.
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dvCali
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 1314
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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:25 am Post subject: Re: Stick 27 and 29 |
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tomg wrote: |
Answer: TI Ripped all day yesterday (Thurs) - a few going out from 2pm till 7pm (when it finally came down (apparently)). I and several others totally lit up on 4.7s. ~4:30-6:30pm Nice rollers considering the flood tide.
I'd report on the amazing consistent wind and water at TI but don't want to be repetitious and redundant. Maybe I should only share the news when it sucks? |
I love TI! It has the best conditions June to August! But I think I'll wait until next year when they hopefully will fix the access ... the "harbor" is still only open Sat and Sun, right?
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