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Toe in asymmetrical fins, becoming the new awesome
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Open Ocean later simply copied the GA Bonzer cant angle shamelessly (and illegally) because it works."


Mike you never cease to amaze me with your finger pointing attitude. Did Lester have a patent on it? And what about the clamp on boom, double concave, camber inducer, roller bar, technora etc. scandal?

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14174

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noshuzbluz wrote:
Quote:
"Open Ocean later simply copied the GA Bonzer cant angle shamelessly (and illegally) because it works."


Mike you never cease to amaze me with your finger pointing attitude. Did Lester have a patent on it?

Re-read my post. Lester had to obtain license from the Campbells to use their thoroughly researched proprietary Bonzer technology. He considered suing OO, but the costs outweigh any gains.
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're full of doo doo.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
U2U2U2 wrote:
NONE::: please read that NONE ::::have asymmetrical fins, front, back, side tri, quad or bonzer .

BZZZZT! Wrong.
See http://bonzer5.com/history/ .

After shaping surf boards for decades, Lester Polyester worked with the legendary Campbell Bros to develop and license his spectacular Gorge Animal Bonzer windsurfing boards based on their carefully researched cant (toe-in) angle using Bonzer fins with one flat side ... i.e., assymetrical, taking into account the diffferences in speed, hull loading, etc. between surf and WS boards. Open Ocean later simply copied the GA Bonzer cant angle shamelessly (and illegally) because it works. We want cant for at least two reasons: we sideslip (our AOA is non-zero) even in a beam reach, and when up on a rail carving we're also obviously not going straight. Even now that Lester moved to Brazil almost a decade ago, the Bonzer WS boards available under his license still use his and Campbell's licensed cant angle. Unfortunately, they no longer incorporate the intricate hull channeling Lester and the Campbells had in their GA Bonzers.

My God ... and to think people think I'M arrogant (and wrong)! It never ceases to amaze me when newbies think history and technology began at their birth or even at their subsequent discovery of the wheel.


please note that once AGAIN you quote out of context:

"I have found toe on F2 QUAD rears, Fanatic the 2013s have 1.09 toe on the sidebites, the Tabou Pocket Waves, tri fin have 1 degree+ or - a little.

NONE::: please read that NONE ::::have asymmetrical fins, front, back, side tri, quad or bonzer ."

Be curious if you could purchase a bonzer windsurf board from a production facility ?

I see from time to time a Gorge Animal

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14174

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
please note that once AGAIN you quote out of context:

[then in the same post he repeats his statement I just disproved:] NONE::: please read that NONE ::::have asymmetrical fins, front, back, side tri, quad or bonzer."
???
Dood, I've owned 15 or 20 Bonzers. The Campbell Bros GA Bonzer fins are assymetrical ... flat on one side and foiled on the other.

While you're at it, try to find ANY example of my wittingly quoting anyone out of context to deceive. (That will keep you tied up for months.)
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14174

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noshuzbluz wrote:
I think you're full of doo doo.

I know. That's why you refuse to accept facts. I was there, you weren't. Get over it.
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
noshuzbluz wrote:
I think you're full of doo doo.

I know. That's why you refuse to accept facts. I was there, you weren't. Get over it.


Oh Mike. I didn't refuse anything and there's nothing to "Get over". I asked Brian about this today. I think you need to get your story/facts straight. He's glad you still like your Bonzers! This "I was there" thing you talk about. Were you and Lester BFF's/Siamese twins? Maybe you ran his business for him. Ya! that's it! Either way, If you would like the other side of the story which there always TWO of, he said to call him. I'm puzzled why you have such an axe to grind with OO/Brian and a 20+ year old story but then again you seem to have an axe to grind with A LOT of people from what I've seen. Maybe you can get some help with that when ObamaCare kicks in!
Good Luck Buddy! Wink

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5818

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Open Ocean later simply copied the GA Bonzer cant angle shamelessly (and illegally) because it works."


Are you the judge and jury here? The unfettered arrogance of some folks just amazes me.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know I actually feel bad, I posted what I consider to be news worthy
equipment worthy.

The reflections of times past are in no way keeping with the production boards that are now available. The link I posted has to do with toe in and and asymmetric fins .

Next time I will post something really newsworthy
like

Hey did youse guys hear that US Windsurfing magazine is not being published anymore and we now have no American magazine to tell us things ???

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14174

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noshuzbluz wrote:
you have such an axe to grind with OO/Brian

That's a lie, and a very personal one with bearing on other people. I've known Brian casually for over 20 years, and think very highly of him. Zero axes there, and your accusation to the contrary is a despicable false witness on him and me. I have also honestly and sincerely praised his products online and in WSing gear test magazine reviews, reserving any proven criticisms (NO board is perfect) to a small handful of people who earnestly sought my detailed advice one on one. Your accusation that any of my opinions of Brian or his gear are tainted by ulterior motive, personal animosity, or any of the other disingenuous implications of the term "axes to grind" is ignorant, vile, and totally false and insults both Brian and me.

It sure as hell doesn't speak well for you, either.

And HELL, yes I have axes to grind with many people. I don't brook assholes well, and have met many, beginning with wardog a couple of decades ago and expanding beyond an explicit list of 30 and counting more recently.

I'll ask Brian about his side of the Bonzer fin toe-in story next time I see him, if only because this thread renewed the story to correct a false statement about the subject.


Last edited by isobars on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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