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Harness line length, is 22 in. too short?
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jiwindsurf



Joined: 03 Oct 2001
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Some like it longer than others Reply with quote

I'm no world class sailer, but referencing Guy Cribb, who is. The snippet below from his website argues that a number of world class sailers use quite long harness lines.
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Guy Cribb has been invited into the UK Windsurfing Association Hall of Fame for his 'outstanding contribution to windsurfing here in the UK' and for being one of 'the greatest windsurfers the UK has produced'

Harness line length
Jason Polakow 26
Ricardo Campello 28
Robby Swift 30
Kauli Seadi 32
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14168

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polakow uses the same length lines I do, and he's almost 4" taller than I. Bruce Peterson is significantly taller than I, and uses much shorter lines than I. Even much more important than those CHOICES is that they ... and many thousands of other WSers ... are not only 5% to 1,000% better sailors than recreational sailors like me but sail differently than we do. DTL wave sailors seldom do their thing hooked in, racers seldom maneuver extensively, jumpers and sloggers do it both ways, board volume varies by 300%, etc., so harness line selection is legitimately all over the map.

Might longer lines help many of us? Maybe so, but assigning some "proper number" to line length makes about as much sense as assigning board volume or wet suit size.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 697

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/All%20men%20are%20equal.pdf
Cribby looking at it a bit differently.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14168

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But his opening remark specifies slalom gear, thus by implication slalom sailing, in which we aren't frequently sheeting way in and way out as in B&J or DTL. He adds that in rough water and onshore conditions (e.g., the Gorge where us old men sail), lower the boom. And if ya lower the boom, ya gotta shorten the lines or yer butt's smacking the water.

It's going to take more than Matt Pritchard, Cribby, Ingerbritsen, and the Puffin to convince me that we should all rig, tune, and/or sail alike.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1346

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy Cribb and Antoine Albeau both crossed the 80 mile wide English Channel from Cherburg to the South coast of England in 6 hours, in a Storm, and a very big and dangerous sea.

They were constantly sheeting in and sheeting out in the heavy swells and bumping and jumping, slalom boards notwithstanding, and were about all in at the finish. It was an epic world class feat.

As far as I know Cribby used his normal harness line length. Perhaps someone could correct that, if not so.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14168

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not talking about sail trim. I'm referring to maneuvering, as in OTL, bottom turns, etc.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 624
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in favor of people taking lessons from pro's so that they will have improved sailing skills and know what length lines work best for their needs.

If longer lines will help them to not ram me, I'm all for it.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1346

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote ... 'slalom sailing in which we aren't frequently sheeting way in and way out as in B&J'

Quote.... 'I'm not talking about sail trim. I'm referring to maneuvering'

And you imagine that all they were doing was sailing locked down in a STRAIGHT LINE in big wild sea conditions!!!

Read about it, and understand!!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14168

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does any sailor, even Pritchard, Albeau, Cribb, or Naish, oversheet or sheet completely out while hooked in with both hands on the boom if their arms are already straight in a beam reach? I've tried it with 28" lines, and can't extend the distant hand far enough to put the sail where it needs to be without pulling the boom in and dropping the line out of the hook.

Besides, were Crib and Albeau racing, or just playing? If the former, they probably didn't spend much time slashing up and down wind.

Any good sailor can probably teach any comparable or lesser sailor a skill or two, and the pros can teach most of us 100 skills, but that's still not going to transfer their innate ability or skills to any ordinary sailor. We've all seen a sailor or two advance more in one season, from scratch, than most sailors do in their whole WSing lives. I, for example, am certain that I'll never be able to extend my front arm an extra foot or two beyond its nominal 34" so I can oversheet hooked in.

In addition, there's the hassle factor. How easy is it for any of us to get a productive lesson with any of these guys? I've driven and flown several times a total of way over 10,000 miles in search of such lessons, and come up skunked by everything from no wind to no show to no teaching ability. The most useful, universal, lasting skill I've ever been taught came from an ordinary no-name dude high on pot sitting in the New Mexico desert. The next two such skills came from my own analysis and experimentation, as did several other lesser but still useful or at least fun skills. Their ratio of reward and benefit to hassle or learning curve was virtually infinite, and that's hard to beat.

Yet I still can't figure out how to reach the booms comfortably, hooked in except in jibes, and still do everything with the sail that I want to do, with 28" lines.
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Started out on long lines like everybody else in the late 80's.

Migrated down to 20" as instructors advocated the erect "7" posture in the 90's.

Now working my way back up, currently 26", as I re-learn the "6" (butt out) posture.

The longer lines force me to get more weight on the harness. More weight on the harness means less weight on knees and hips going through big chop => better preservation of parts as parts get older.

My booms have moved way up, maybe 3". I'm 5'10", 34 shirt. Wave emphasis.

I have caught the hook on the harness jibing which just exposed my habit of keeping the boom too close during jibes.

It's a challenge to learn but #1 objective as I age is how can I sail more efficiently and more easily to prolong life in this sport -- I think the longer lines are paying off.
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