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1st and 2nd Amendments under attack
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2708

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
I'd rather let 100 murderers live, in order to not kill an innocent man. The same goes for babies.

Perhaps that's why they let George Zimmermann live.

After all, at 17, unarmed, and doing nothing but walking home from the store, Treyvon Martin was miles from innocence.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5908

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Religious folks have little difficulty in getting ugly. All you have to do is disagree with them.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1367

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler.

There are charlatans and swindlers in all walks of life. Religion, unfortunately, attracts too many such. (Power over the gullible, or money making evangelical scams.)

They should not be confused with true believers, who don't go about clanging cymbals, or beating drums. As R has said, they just go about life quietly, and patiently attempting to live up to their convictions.

As an atheist, I continually regret, and sometimes dislike the fact that, I can't believe in a god. (Even Jesus had doubts - 'My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me' - as he faced death on the cross.)

But who really knows what drives us from within? Logic, and reasoned analysis from those who think they know it all, raises a hollow laugh. Show me the human who has never been brought down and made a fool of by love, and I'll show you a robot.

Try logic and reason on that! (Or toothache!!)
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5391

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said GT. I do make a distinction between those who have the gift of faith, who generally seem to be pretty quiet about it, and those who flail around in an effort to impress, or impose their own spiritual values on others. On the first front, the comments of Pope Francis seem to hearken back to the non-judgmental teachings of Christ like few popes in my lifetime.

I had a suspicion that RR was an evangelical from his first posting asking me about my spiritual guide, and complaining about discrimination against Christians, and insisting he had a right to know my moral compass when I told him it was none of his business. There is a particular stripe of evangelical Christianity that I find very dangerous. My brother is like this. They have removed their children from school so they won't be exposed to biology, birth control, or any teachings of evolution. I would think that a robust faith--whether in conservatism or Christianity--would be able to sustain itself in the face of contrary evidence, or progress in science. But what I consider dangerous is first, their deliberate ignorance of the underpinnings of this country, that is, the separation of church and state. There is little or no willingness to actually expose themselves to the contemporary arguments when the Constitution was adopted, but only with the addition of the Bill of Rights. Christian sites that are active politically, and brainwash those that sign up for the cleansing, are full of cherry-picked quotes taken out of context. (Reminds me of some on this forum.)

The other dangerous aspect of this particular blend of evangelicals is their willingness to secede from a society where more than one idea is accepted in the realm of public discourse. These are the folks that you find in so many of the Tea Party types, and so many of the proud dismissers on this forum.

The problem is not faith--faith is miraculous. It is the use of religion, and the manipulation of religious messages, for ideological purity and political power. I could name folks like Reed, or Jerry Fallwell, but I think you get the point.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1367

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed Mac.

I, too, read of the popes softening of stance. (Who am I to stand in the way of.. etc.)
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4240

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that I find this new Pope refreshing and open also.

Mac, as for your brother, he will have better kids if he doesn't allow them to be polluted by other kids their age in a public school setting. We chose to live in a rural setting to avoid such problems.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5391

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard--they know nothing. It is tragic.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4240

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Bard--they know nothing. It is tragic.


Some of the happiest people I know, know nothing...
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2708

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Religious folks have little difficulty in getting ugly. All you have to do is disagree with them.

Much like many of the rabid righties.


stevenbard wrote:
mac wrote:
Bard--they know nothing. It is tragic.


Some of the happiest people I know, know nothing...

Much like many of the rabid righties... in other words, Fox viewers.
.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1008

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Religious folks have little difficulty in getting ugly. All you have to do is disagree with them.

More of the same. Some people are just consistently ugly in their approach.

Mac,
If you wish to make accusations then at least ensure they are correct. "Spiritual guide, insist?" really? I just reviewed my posts and I'm not seeing that there.

If one always make broad generalized statements about a group of people then what do you call it? I don't know about your definition, but it IS prejudice.

If I recall correctly, I asked questions and you responded your views. I did not insist on anything, I asked and shared too. I guess this approach must be foreign to you. Your approach seem to be more of ranting at people. You show no interesting in an exchange of ideas or opinions if they do not agree with yours.

Don't worry. I'll remove myself from this debate, if you could call it that. It would seem there is no room for an exchange here , therefore making this a waste of mental energy.

Enjoy.


Last edited by reinerehlers on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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