myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
1st and 2nd Amendments under attack
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9 ... 31, 32, 33  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
At least we don't play Brucie ... changing nyms in an unsuccessful attempt to make us think you're a new and/or honest face, bajaDean (and more temporary guises).

Mikey dear, it's quite clear you're paranoid.

_________________
mo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max...

There are 100 pages on this forum discussing gun control. I suggest no one is "biting" because many of us were involved in that thread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maxdownhaul wrote:
Feel free to keep shooting yourselves

Only in self-defense, guy, only in self defense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3457

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Downhauls opinions reflect those of most folks I meet in other countries. It is the most usual view of expats as well because we are looking at it without politics exposure to propaganda.

In most countries if you put a gun in the hand of every as#$ole who could avoid a background check, you would have more than 30,000 deaths from guns a year. No one would want that in their own country.
Like in the United States.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you could look at it as population control. It would seem that it is usually the bottom feeders are the ones shooting eachother. That's not a bad thing, right? Well except for when the odd wackpot shoots it up in a school. But if you break it down statistically the odd school kid here or there is not that big a deal if some welfare recipient is removed from the hand out list, right?
Maybe they could have open season on radical Muslims? That way all the gun nuts could get it out of their systems, and they could help remove a national threat at the same time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1493

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an example of US gun laws working as designed.

https://youtube.googleapis.com/v/epZod2qyyN4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2705

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Here is an example of US gun laws working as designed.

https://youtube.googleapis.com/v/epZod2qyyN4

Hmm.

Gramps fired at least six times (count 'em, six, maybe seven) at nearly point-blank range and apparently missed every time. The miscreants RAN away, didn't crawl or limp away.

Think any innocent bystanders were hit instead?

Or maybe Gramps was shooting blanks?
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
Maybe they could have open season on radical Muslims? That way all the gun nuts could get it out of their systems, and they could help remove a national threat at the same time.

Totally agree. And practical, as soon as you tell us how to determine which ones are planning attacks.

More practical would be taking guns from criminals on the street (and from good citizens who think giving up their guns is a good idea), then giving at least one of those guns to every dangerous criminal in prison. We'd have far fewer people in prison, far fewer dangerous people on the planet, far less resources tied up in prisons, and far fewer guns on the street.

We get it that you would rather let a home invader disembowel your children, or a mugger beat your wife to a pulp, or some Bozo shoot up a city street, than kill him first. That's your choice ... if the victims are alright with that. But don't try to tell the rest of us that we should follow your example; that's OUR choice.

Odds, schmodds. Is it better to have a gun or not have a gun when you really really REALLY need one? Of course, anyone who isn't trained to use and safeguard one shouldn't have one. Never forget that the police are not there to protect us from bad guys; their job is to arrest the bad guy AFTER the crime in the hopes of protecting his NEXT victim. And when we need the police within seconds, they're just minutes away.

You'll understand when you get a little older and wiser ... or when you lose a loved one to a criminal. Let's hope it's the former; the latter sucks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4229

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
techno900 wrote:
Here is an example of US gun laws working as designed.

https://youtube.googleapis.com/v/epZod2qyyN4

Hmm.

Gramps fired at least six times (count 'em, six, maybe seven) at nearly point-blank range and apparently missed every time. The miscreants RAN away, didn't crawl or limp away.

Think any innocent bystanders were hit instead?

Or maybe Gramps was shooting blanks?
.


No, actually, if you've never seen a guy who'd been shot with a small caliber hand gun, it takes about 20 seconds for the blood loss to hit the brain and body. They can run for a while unless you shoot them in the head or bone of a leg.

I couldn't stop laughing at the video though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5360

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well disguised in techno's insinuation that Obama and the left are socialists, was, apparently, this question:

Quote:
Isn't anyone on the left willing to state exactly what they want from our government? Isn't this really the debate, what the left REALLY wants vs. what the right REALLY wants?


To be sure, it is hard to take the suggestion that Obama is a socialist seriously. Those who know much about political science understand that socialism is an economic system where the state owns the means of production. In Russia after the revolution that involved the brutal confiscation of land and creation of collectives in agriculture and other areas of the economy. England of course nationalized the coal industry, and then de-nationalized it. Obama’s signature accomplishment, the ACA, is a specific rejection of the idea of nationalizing the public health industry, It utilizes, and indeed increases the market, for private insurance companies and medical facilities. It rejects an outright socialist medical system, that would directly employ doctors (Kaiser on steroids?) and even rejects proposals for a semi-nationalized insurance system with expanded Medicare to cover the entire population. So an argument that begins with Obama as a socialist is a non-starter; he rejected attempts for a single payer medical system. (Ironically, the only “socialist” institutions in government are police, the army, and mail delivery. For good reasons.)

I know of almost nobody to the left of you who favors socialism; the experiments in Russia, China, and Venezuela have been disastrous. Instead, I think many on the left favor a system of government that provides a check on government itself—the three balanced arms of the Federal government—and on the worst predations of the private enterprise system. Many years of experience with private enterprise have shown us what those predations tend to be.

This is just the other side of the question I have asked on multiple occasions—what would you cut to balance the budget? Here are the things that I support having government do.

SAFETY AND SECURITY

The really big cost items in the Federal budget and in local governments are for safety and security. For the 2013 proposed budget by Obama, Defense was $700 billion of the $3,9 trillion total. This includes $40 billion for Homeland Security and $61 billion for Veterans—which is going to go up rapidly for the next 30 years. The amount of waste in those budgets would run all of the other Federal agencies that I support. Of course, there are big parts of the security budget—the black budget and the war efforts—that are not included in this figure. Of these, I support most increases for wounded and disturbed veterans—we owe them that.

At the local government level, police and fire protection is always the big ticket item, although local governments vary dramatically in efficiency. For San Leandro, where my grandchildren live (a well governed small city), Police and fire are about $50 million of the $130 million budget.

PROTECTION OF COMMONLY HELD RESOURCES

The Federal government owns about 28% of the 2.27 billion acres in the United States, and has a navigational interest in all of its waters, including those we use for windsurfing. Nearly all of the water and of course all of the air is also part of a “commons” and needs to be protected for all users. The largest owner of land is the Department of Interior—with a budget of only 11 billion. Only a small part of this vast land holding is national parks—56 parks totaling about 84 million acres, with an adopted budge for 2012 of only about $330 million. Protecting these resources, and allowing sustainable use by industry and recreation requires management of the land, and protection of the air and water quality. I support these programs.

PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT

Most protection of the environment actually occurs at the State level, with the Federal government setting the standards and making sure that the States are doing the job. It’s pretty cheap, given that we need water to drink and air to breathe, and both are dramatically cleaner than they were when I was growing up. EPA is the biggest player in this function, with a 2013 budget of $8.3 billion—a little more than 1% of the security budget. Some of the Interior agencies and the Corps of Engineers provide protection for wetlands and wildlife, but the price tag is tiny—the entire budget for the Corps is only 4.7 billion, which includes maintaining reservoirs and the nation’s shipping systems.

PUBLIC SAFETY OTHER THAN MILITARY AND POLICING

There are a large number of things that the three levels do to protect public safety—from local building code that ensure your house doesn’t kill you in a hurricane ore earthquake, or the contractor doesn’t install wiring that will start a fire. Building codes go beyond that, to ensure that there are roads and sewers available, or part of the project, before land is subdivided and built out. Other things are often taken for granted—food safety involves standards and inspections, and such offensive things to conservatives as making sure that there aren’t toxic levels of pesticides and mercury in your food.

PUBLIC WORKS

Americans discovered that it was better for economic growth to rely on the government for roads and navigation improvements in the 19th century. Toll roads and toll canals, and the early irrigation projects were spotty, and expensive. Now governments supply virtually all roads, airports, seaports, sewer and sewage treatment systems and the water supply water for most of the people in the County. In San Leandro, the Public Works budget is 7 million—about 5% of the budget for the year. (In case you think that the recession didn’t change government, San Leandro has about 20% fewer employees than they did in 2008, and yet the street is being repaired in front of my daughter’s house.)

PUBLIC HEALTH

Governments at all levels are the resource of last resort for the elderly, the indigent, and the sick and disturbed. Medicare costs $528 billion a year and Medicaid $255. Big numbers. Health and Human Services are the second largest item in California’s budget, $46 billion out of a total of $145 billion. Many of us think that it was essential to pass a health care bill that began to rein in these costs.

EDUCATION

The Federal Department of Education has a relatively large budget--$70 billion, or about ten times what we spend on EPA. Education is the largest item in California’s budget, with all education, K through higher, costing $50 billion. I’m not a strong supporter of Federal policy driving education, and I think that the Leave No Child Behind effort has been counterproductive. But I do think that many of the functions of the Department of Education should be preserved.

OTHERS

There are other areas of the Federal budget that I would like to see cut, and still others that are surprising. Crop supports in the Department of Agriculture are an example of an entitlement program for Republicans left over from Roosevelt’s first term. Free stuff for Milt’s guys. Cut it all. HUD at $35 billion, and NASA at $18 billion seem too large. I think we need to spend more on transportation—our bridges are in shaky shape, and $11 billion is not enough. But the only place real savings will come from is Security, Medicare, and Social Security.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9 ... 31, 32, 33  Next
Page 8 of 33

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group