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1st and 2nd Amendments under attack
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14024

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Some of the happiest people I know, know nothing...

Isn't that a prerequisite these days? Ignorance is bliss. Even for pie-eyed optimists, managing the hoops and hassles of today's world consumes a lot of time, and the people who ignore all that will suffer at least some, maybe many, consequences if they just ignore them.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5112

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RR--if you can explain an important difference between "spiritual guide", my paraphrasing, and your question:

Quote:
What do you base your opinion or moral compass upon?


I will try to understand the distinction. But it is still none of your business--that is the very nature of religious freedom in this country.

There is a fascinating op ed piece by E. J. Dionne Jr. that is absolutely on point. Starts with this:

Quote:
By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: August 4 E-mail the writer

Whenever I write sympathetically about religion, I get bombarded by tweets and notes from readers who normally agree with me but cannot abide by the idea that religious belief should be seen as intellectually serious.

And because I have written favorably about Pope Francis, I get more than my share of angry comments about the Catholic pedophilia scandal, which continues to haunt the church and troubles even its most loyal members.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-dionne-jr-religion-challenges-left-and-right/2013/08/04/2b2e7a2e-fb7d-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html

It goes on to illustrate, from information garnered in a poll by the Public Religion Research Institute and the Brookings Institute the pervasive influence of conservative religion in the current Republican Party. 28% of Americans can be classified as religious conservatives, well under the percentage of religious moderates. Yet they represent 56% of Republicans. They have, in fact, jerked the party of Lincoln so far to the right that they have scared the Millennials. What should, I think, be of concern to the religious is that they are "turning off substantial numbers of young Americans to faith."

RR--dialogue involves paying attention to what each person actually says, and responding to that. I tried to give you very specific and respectful answers to your questions, despite them being loaded. But to understand some things you might need to lower your defenses a bit.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2602

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For once I completely agree with a quote provided from the left coast. Pretty much the same words could be used to describe reactions to any expression of religious faith, and to any topic remotely connected to the Catholic church that arises on this forum. I also agree with Dionne's next paragraph:

"Getting lambasted doesn’t bother me. On the contrary, citizens talking back to the purveyors of opinion is a glorious aspect of free speech. But my correspondents underscore the existence of a strong anti-religious current within a segment of the liberal community that is both an important political fact and a potential problem for progressives."
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5112

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe--if you read for content, and lowered your defenses, you might be able to detect a distinction between faith and concerns about organized religion. In the case of the Catholic Church, their systematic crimes of covering up child abuse--which went to the very top--was even worse than Pius's complicity in the holocaust. Leading me to the conclusion that the doctrine of papal infallability was pretty much just like magic underpants. I guess the distinction between faith and entrenched hierarchy is invisible to hierarchs.
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