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1st and 2nd Amendments under attack
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2642

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought there are two "n"s in "quadrennium".......and that the plural is quadrennia. Must check my Knuckle Draggers Complete English Dictionary.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1344

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac. I admit to being a mass of contradictions. It's sometimes impossible to sleep when trying to make sense of things.

A main contradiction is an instinctive dislike of weakness in those who let life dictate to them, rather than imposing their will on things. Yet, in daily teaching contact with 'damaged' children from uncaring and anti-social homes (about 5 to 10% in our traditional community) it was impossible not to empathise, and feel pity for the problems they faced. If only there had been some way of helping them.

What they really lacked, and needed, was EMOTIONAL commitment, not institutional help, but that was not possible, and they were being failed.

I know families who short term adopt troubled teens, but that causes as many problems as it solves. The teens know that this is a sticking plaster solution to their needs, and, as one frustrated 'parent' said, they take it out on us, and p**s all over us!

From one point of view abortion on demand for 'lost' women who are unable to overcome their problems should be welcomed, to help try and stop perpetuating a cycle of despair, but I instinctively feel it's wrong. Hence the contradictions.

It doesn't surprise me that some wish to introduce compulsory sterilization ( for their own good, of course - sarcasm intended) of those judged unable to cope with their problems, but I'd instinctively be against that!

All I'm saying is, I don't have an answer. But neither, it seems, does society.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
It take more than a bit of a stretch to get from that to calling reinrehlers, or anyone else not willing to embrace it, a knuckle dragger.
Actually you never called me a knuckle dragger. I chose to identify with the group you chose to refer to as knuckle dragger.


mac wrote:
reinerehlers--why ask a question that you know the answer to? As I said, religious freedom protects the right of people with whatever belief system to have or adopt children, and protects the rights of people who have no trouble with abortion from being prevented from seeking one. Two sides of the same coin.
I think this forum is an exchange of ideas, opinions, views, is it not? My thinking in asking the question is that your answer would shed light on your stand point / thinking around the matter in question. I guess your snide answer did that in an indirect way.

Mac,
Perhaps you could set some ground rules for us with regards to how a question should be asked, how it should be phrased, what type of question are allowed, acceptable terms and phrases.....etc. . I'm confused, I thought this was just an open conversation on topics. When I have a conversation or debate with friends we share ideas or experiences sometimes via questions. It really isn't fruitfull is we just talk "at" eachother.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1943

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
I always thought there are two "n"s in "quadrennium".......and that the plural is quadrennia. Must check my Knuckle Draggers Complete English Dictionary.


You may want to check a couple other sources on the plural of quadrennium. I have observed that knuckledraggers often use only their approved souces for reference. One might wish to avoid falling into that trap.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:

I have observed that knuckledraggers often use only their approved souces for reference. One might wish to avoid falling into that trap.

What are your approved "souces"?
Good point though about the trap thingy. Wink
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1943

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
coboardhead wrote:

I have observed that knuckledraggers often use only their approved souces for reference. One might wish to avoid falling into that trap.

What are your approved "souces"?
Good point though about the trap thingy. Wink


I admit that I will sometimes fall into that trap of looking for the data that supports my opinion. We all have a bit of the knuckledragger in us, I fear. One must be especially careful not to let others define what those sources are. We all know this.

I was tweaking mrgybe. He doez etempt to belittle arguments by correcting the grammer and or spalling of sum of us.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's OK. I'm such a knuckle dragger I don't even know what it means, and I'm incapable of looking it up.
I did just look up "knuckle dragger" on Urban Dictionary though, and I had to laugh:
knuckle dragger:
Stereotypical and racially prejudice term referring to people of African decent. Stems from the idea of these people having long, monkey like arms.
To think some people thought the term "promiscuous" was insensitive.

OK, I have to ask another one of my "gotcha questions"
What's more offensive, the term knuckle dragger or promiscuous?


Last edited by reinerehlers on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5199

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, and acute:

Quote:
I was tweaking mrgybe. He doez etempt to belittle arguments by correcting the grammer and or spalling of sum of us.


Actually, it is more than that. I posted the article on dismissive types only partly in jest, I posted it to make a larger point. I'll return to the subject of DDT to make that point directly. Mrgybe, along with a number of other posters here, does more than tweak--they dismiss completely, often bragging about their refusal to read, pay attention, too long, respond, etc. It is symptomatic of the current approach of the neo-John Birch Society to impose one's view rather than engage and reach compromise. It implicitly says that the values that others hold should have no place in solutions.

The DDT question is typical. Mrgybe started a line of "reasoning" with an ad hominem attack that assigned motives like a lack of empathy to us "latte-sipping liberals." He dismissed the concerns of environmentalists over the adverse impacts of DDT--and in the process illustrated the kind of behavior that prevents collaboration. DDT was banned in 1972, and was defended by Monsanto and the Department of Agriculture for agricultural use, particularly cotton, in the hearings. It is a long time ago, and I didn't bother to read the entire body of testimony, but nothing in the decision reflected concern over use for mosquito control domestically. It appears that DDT use in the United States was dropping significantly because of concerns over risk, and other means had replaced DDT for mosquito control. Many years later, in 1995, the United Nations Environment Programme began a series of meetings that led to the Stockholm Convention, a treaty adopted in 2001 that went into effect in 2004. That Convention addressed a large number of persistent organic pollutants (POPS) with a goal of eliminated them from use and release into the environment. The use of DDT for malaria control was specifically exempted.

I am not sure exactly what happened between 1972 and 2001 with malaria control, nor does it matter to my point. When the WHO sought to have DDT used for malaria control, they did not dispute the underlying concerns about DDT proliferation and impacts. Rather, they acknowledged the issues that mrgybe has dismissed, and asked the question of whether or not it could still be used with a reasonable level of risk. When proposed in that way, with proponents using a team-building approach rather than scorched earth ad-hominem attacks, there was support by environmental groups for using DDT.

Now it may make people like mrgybe feel good to rant about their anger at environmentalists and their lack of empathy. (I have heard of a book that might help him--Beyond Anger: A Guide for Men: How to Free Yourself from the Grip of Anger and Get More Out of Life by Thomas Harbin). The trouble is, it is built on a tissue of lies. And it is ineffective, it makes enemies out of potential collaborators.

We can see the same thing going on in the more substantially charged, and difficult world of views about abortion. When Obama said, in the third debate during the 2008 race:

Quote:
there surely is some common ground when both those who believe in choice and those who are opposed to abortion can come together and say, 'We should try to prevent unintended pregnancies by providing appropriate education to our youth, communicating that sexuality is sacred and that they should not be engaged in cavalier activity, and providing options for adoption, and helping single mothers if they want to choose to keep the baby'. Those are all things that we put in the Democratic platform for the first time this year, and I think that's where we can find some common ground, because nobody's pro-abortion. I think it's always a tragic situation. We should try to reduce these circumstances


he suggested, and I agree, that we do those things that would prevent any woman from facing the choice of abortion, not merely the more charged choice of a later term abortion. But from a combination of zeal from those who wish to stop all abortions, and calculation, from those who want to use abortion as a wedge issue, this middle ground has not been much explored.

I have described the Texas efforts (and similar efforts in many other states) as the work of knuckle draggers because they are part of an effort to restrict contraception as well as late term abortion. In Texas, the clear intent is to close as many facilities that provide abortion, at any time, as possible. Rather than seek common ground, the viewpoints of those who support at least early term abortion are dismissed, and Obama's views on abortion have been used as raw meat to stoke the anger of the anti-abortion minority.

The exact same thing occurred on the ACA--an approach which began with a Heritage Foundation idea for responsibility that had been tried in Massachusetts by a Republican Governor. At the end of the day, Obama imposed it and cut the deals necessary to deliver the votes when it became clear that no compromises would garner a single Republican vote.

This then, is the current status of the Republican party. Unwilling to compromise, or even acknowledge the validity of the values that others hold. Willing to dismiss and attack such values, regardless of the fact. When does carelessness with the truth become active lying? I drew my conclusion when I reviewed the litany of false statements that mrgybe made about DDT.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno900,
Is it best to bang on the front or the top of the block wall? I'm just asking advice, it's not a gotcha question.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2642

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
You may want to check a couple other sources on the plural of quadrennium. I have observed that knuckledraggers often use only their approved souces for reference. One might wish to avoid falling into that trap.

It's entirely possible that the Urban Dictionary and others overlook the Latin roots of the word and simply add an "s". My classical education rebels against such sloppiness!.......and my source is the Latin language itself not a publication that describes the period after dark as the "nite". BTW, as a rule I only highlight grammatical errors of those who routinely characterize other posters as stupid or ignorant.......or knuckle draggers.
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