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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| maxdownhaul wrote: | | winding up a certain red neck. |
"Winding up", as in angering, I suppose? Dude, you misunderstand my motivation entirely. Exposing liberal ideals as ludicrous is almost as much fun as windsurfing. If I had nothing else to do, I could enjoy it 24/7. Of course, it's so easy that I would get bored at some point.
Like now.
You'll have to change your identity again, Sybil. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4166
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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From:
http://www.infowars.com/there-are-100-million-working-age-americans-that-do-not-have-jobs/
| Quote: | The unemployment crisis in America is much worse than you are being told. Did you know that there are 100 million working age Americans that do not get up in the morning and go to work?
No wonder why it seems like there are so many people that do not have jobs! According to the federal government, there are 12.6 million working age Americans that are considered to be “officially” unemployed, but there are another 87.8 million working age Americans that are not working either. The federal government considers those Americans to be “not in the labor force” so they are not included in the unemployment rate. In fact, this is one of the key ways that the government manipulates the unemployment numbers. |
My point in posting this is to show that the distribution of contributing members of society is pretty lopsided at this time. 47% of working age Americans don't pay income tax, so just a little over half of the country is carrying a significant portion of the burden that supports those not working or benefiting from government assistance including health care.
Add the fact that the US has to borrow 40% of all it's money to keep the country functioning. We are in deep trouble and there has been little to no progress in the last 5 years.
I have said before that the basic concept of the ACA (affordable care act) is logical, but that our government has bitten off more than it can chew, which is becoming more and more apparent as time goes by. Now I hear that there will be a huge and costly advertising campaign to try and sell the ACA since the majority of Americans are not in favor of the program or know little about it. More of my tax dollars wasted, what a warm feeling it gives me, or was it just a bad meal. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Pueno
I guess it depends on how one defines socialized medicine. Medicare is a forced contribution...in fact it is a tax that goes towards paying for senior care. My mother never worked outside the home, and so did not ever contribute to Medicare yet receives it. It is completely subsidized medical care. She does have to pay a deductible. If she was poor enough, Medicaid would pick up the deductible. |
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, c'mon, Techno. Be serious. Infowars is Alex Jones.
Alex Jones is the poster child for conspiracy theories and deception of all flavors, shapes, sizes, colors, and persuasions.
If Jones said the sun was shining, you'd better grab your umbrella.
You could try to make your point using legitimate, credible sources.
And it's not a bad point -- for example, we're still paying for those GWB wars with GWB diminished tax dollars. Why aren't you indignant about the tax dollars diminished by GWB?
Oh, I get it. You're pissed because some people -- like Romney -- don't pay the full share of taxes.
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | Pueno
I guess it depends on how one defines socialized medicine. Medicare is a forced contribution...in fact it is a tax that goes towards paying for senior care. My mother never worked outside the home, and so did not ever contribute to Medicare yet receives it. It is completely subsidized medical care. She does have to pay a deductible. If she was poor enough, Medicaid would pick up the deductible. |
Well....... I agree in principle and in part -- the payment part for part A is socialized -- for example, the way that your mother is covered for a hospital stay without ever having paid into the system. She does have to pay a portion for part B, though.
And copays.
I think it's a mistake to call your mother's Medicare "completely subsidized." Her part B payments are deducted from her social security checks, so it seems invisible, but that's only because they've hidden the deduction. She doesn't have to write the check.
And, yes, it does depend on how we define "socialized medicine." I use the Scandinavian or French models as good examples of it.
Medicare is a distant cousin to those models. After all, US seniors must pay full freight for supplemental and drug coverage, and we pay a significant chunk for part B.
Our health care is far from free. We pay into insurance programs that earn profits for the owners.
Truly socialized health care is underwritten totally by tax dollars -- those citizens also pay for their care via taxes, and their taxes are a much higher percentage of earned income. In their systems, nobody's taking a profitable cut off the top, so every dollar goes into health care, not a billion-dollar CEO's pocket.
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I am acquainted with two people who didn't pay taxes last year. One is middle class and the other is very rich. The rich woman has timber and that business sometimes doesn't throw off taxable income.
The other non payer is a landlord. I am in that business. Our deductions are very good.
I paid none in a filing several years ago as a result.
Fact check pointed out tens of thousands of Millionaires who don't owe in most years.
Scum like Jones assumes anyone who doesn't pay is getting welfare. There are lots of poor people who don't get welfare benefits and a really lot of affluent people who do, esp through disability payment fraud.
And corporate welfare. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Pueno
O.K. Medicare is only "partly government subsidized medical insurance". And Medicare for the poor with Medicaid picking up the supplemental is "fully subsidized medical insurance". But, the VA is socialized medicine because veteran's former employer happens to be the Federal Government and employs the providers directly?
Point is none of these is unconstitutional. |
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| keycocker wrote: | I am acquainted with two people who didn't pay taxes last year. One is middle class and the other is very rich. The rich woman has timber and that business sometimes doesn't throw off taxable income.
The other non payer is a landlord. I am in that business. Our deductions are very good.
I paid none in a filing several years ago as a result.
Fact check pointed out tens of thousands of Millionaires who don't owe in most years.
Scum like Jones assumes anyone who doesn't pay is getting welfare. There are lots of poor people who don't get welfare benefits and a really lot of affluent people who do, esp through disability payment fraud.
And corporate welfare. |
All are credible points.
| coboardhead wrote: | Pueno
O.K. Medicare is only "partly government subsidized medical insurance". And Medicare for the poor with Medicaid picking up the supplemental is "fully subsidized medical insurance". But, the VA is socialized medicine because veteran's former employer happens to be the Federal Government and employs the providers directly?
Point is none of these is unconstitutional. |
Yes, I agree with you about "partly government subsidized medical insurance."
But everything beyond parts A & B puts cash into billionaire CEOs' pockets, which reduces services to subscribers.
Mikey gets socialized medicine plus disability cash yet screams about socialism and government subsidies.
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4166
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Pueno said: | Quote: | | Alex Jones is the poster child for conspiracy theories and deception of all flavors, shapes, sizes, colors, and persuasions |
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Typical, no mention that facts are facts, just discredit the source. If you can, point out where the errors are, then let's discuss the issue. Careful you don't choke on reality.
Socialized medicine could work in the US, but it will be hugely expensive with taxes through the roof at the expense of reduced care and service. The ACA is just the first step. Just a guess, but most countries with socialized medicine probably have a much lower unemployment rate, and almost everyone is contributing to the cost, not just half the country. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | Socialized medicine could work in the US ... |
Why here when it is failing so badly in the UK, Canada, etc? What could and would we do differently? We can get care and see specialists months to years more quickly and easily than they can, and the statistics about European vs U.S. infant survival and cancer survival are doctored off the charts, as discussed here over the past few years. |
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