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Exocet SCross 160: sails/fins below recommended range
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nodak



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Exocet SCross 160: sails/fins below recommended range Reply with quote

I have the low wind Exocet SCross 160 (FWS). According to the board's spec sheet I'm to use following sails with their appropriate size fins: 7.0 - 11.0. Fins are Deep Tuttle. I have a 45cm and a the stock 54cm fins for this board.

I would like to use sails in the 5.5 - 7.0 range for higher wind days without switching to a smaller size board. Finding fins in the 30cm-40cm range in Deep Tuttle can be tricky, but I may substitute with Tuttle fins and longer screws.

Other than the board catching air on windier days, how else will these changes affect the performance of the board?
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 149
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a 160 of 80 cm width and prefer to sail it in 8.x conditions
it will do 7-oh, but the chop ride is uncomfortable
under 7-oh forget it - just not going over chop comfortably
i go down to 124 liter 65 cm wide board

the s-cross 160 is not only voluminous, but also wide at 85 cm
for me that means 8.5 to 9.5 sails
and you want to try 5.5 ??
with an 85 cm wide board ??
i call that -- sail will want to go faster than the board can
{okay for learning, but not in 25 knot winds}
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since nobody will recommend you doing this and you wouldn't listen anyway, just experiment and see what works for you. Outside equipment's intended range is a very personal thing, that only you can feel and understand.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1888
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without comment on actual fin sizing, you can use a standard size Tuttle fin in a deep Tuttle box. You will need to match the original bolt lengths (or very close) and threads, but fit and stability will be fine. Simply take care not to draw the fin farther into the box than the bottom, but that shouldn't be a problem since Tuttle fins (both kinds) are pressure/friction fit anyhow.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 1930

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could be sailing on a small lake with little fetch so small chop. If so, the 5.5 will work fine. Dan addressed the standard deep tuttle issue. On fin sizing you are chasing fools gold by trying to put 30ish cm fins on an 85 cm wide board. Large, wide board require big fins to get their fat buts out of the water. Go too small & the fin can't lift the tail so you get lots of drag & the 5.5 will feel real heavy leaving you prone to catapults. Experiment if you must but I'm guessing somewhere in the low to mid 40 cm range is the bottom limit on fin sizing for your board. Going smaller will give you no more control, just more drag and spin outs.

Coachg
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1017
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
You could be sailing on a small lake with little fetch so small chop. If so, the 5.5 will work fine. Dan addressed the standard deep tuttle issue. On fin sizing you are chasing fools gold by trying to put 30ish cm fins on an 85 cm wide board. Large, wide board require big fins to get their fat buts out of the water. Go too small & the fin can't lift the tail so you get lots of drag & the 5.5 will feel real heavy leaving you prone to catapults. Experiment if you must but I'm guessing somewhere in the low to mid 40 cm range is the bottom limit on fin sizing for your board. Going smaller will give you no more control, just more drag and spin outs.

Coachg


I agree with CoachG. I wouldn't go any smaller than the 45, because the fin length has to balance with the tail width.

To get the 5.5 to work right on such a wide board you may also want to move the boom really high and set the mast base far back in the track. If you get the setting right, and the chop isn't too steep, you might actually get a pretty fun ride with that board / sail combo.

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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Exocet SCross 160: sails/fins below recommended range Reply with quote

nodak wrote:
I have the low wind Exocet SCross 160 (FWS). According to the board's spec sheet I'm to use following sails with their appropriate size fins: 7.0 - 11.0. Fins are Deep Tuttle. I have a 45cm and a the stock 54cm fins for this board.

I would like to use sails in the 5.5 - 7.0 range for higher wind days without switching to a smaller size board. Finding fins in the 30cm-40cm range in Deep Tuttle can be tricky, but I may substitute with Tuttle fins and longer screws.

Other than the board catching air on windier days, how else will these changes affect the performance of the board?


I agree with all the advice and comments given.

But another perspective... depends on "why" you want to do this!!!
Maybe you don't have smaller board. Maybe you're practicing something, or teaching somebody... or you're trying to go slower, learning... whatever.
When brands put sail size suggestions on boards, they are just some guys idea on what would work best for what the board's designed for.
HOWEVER, many people around the world use their boards for things other than the exact conditions the designer intended. And they work great, the people have fun and everybody is happy.

The sail/rig is like an engine in a car. You can put a big engine in a small car. Or you can put a small engine in a big car. It all works. It's just that the performance might be very different than whatever the designer intended. And frankly, some combos don't work very well. But big deal, who knows all of the million reasons that somebody might do something different than what the inventor intended. And for that person, the change might be just fine. The new combo might not act the way it was intended in certain conditions. HOWEVER, for the conditions the sailor cares about, it might be totally fine.

So although, I totally agree with the advice given... I'd also say, you can use a smaller sail than the brand suggests. And I wouldn't even change the fin. You're going to be going slower with a smaller sail, so no big deal.
Now, if you're trying to make a big shortboard act exactly like a small shortboard in 30 mph winds, that's probably not gonna happen. But still... you can do it.
Chevy would never recommend putting a little VW engine in a Suburban.
But suppose you wanted really good mpg... and you were only going to drive on flat level ground, and you didn't care how long it took you to pull away from a stop sign... and the only thing you were going to haul was cotton balls. Then sure, you could put a little VW engine in a Suburban.
Greg Smile
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nodak



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like a futile idea all around. The 160L is the smallest board I've ever sailed in Kailua, HI (my windsurf stuff is stored there); it's kind of like my comfort zone. Wife and I are planning a trip soon, so I'm weighing different things I can do with my equipment there. I'll save the 160L for light wind days in Kailua to rig with an 7.5 - 8.0 or so. Although I have never seen anyone there with an 160L board and 8.0 sail, which is strange since most days are mediocre wind. Correction: I've seen people sailing Kona One there!

Most of the year I sail on MN lakes on my 220L Kona One. So I don't ever get enough time to practice sailing smaller volume boards in HI and small boards are useless in MN.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2142

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your 160 is fine there, if the winds are under 22, which they often are.
Watch out for the two shallow protruding rocks on your way out towards past FlatIsland, and you're good to go.
For the most area Tuttle box fin, look for something old, like '90's or even late '80's, for a pointer fin around 12-14" with lots of surface area.
Dave, the old owner of that windsurf shop in Kaulua, probably sailed an average of 3 early mornings a week, and a couple after work sessions right at 5PM. He weighed around 220, mostly used a 7 meter sail and 120 board.
Biggest board I ever used there, maybe out of 30 or so days, was my 8'8" PriesterBuilt, around 87 liters on a 5.7 3 cam sail. I was around 150 lbs,, no wetsuit in Hawaii, so saved an easy 10 lbs with the warm weather. The old sails were more powerful than anything today, due to no twist, so today would be a 6.5 -7 sized sail for me.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See... I knew there was a story there !!!
That 160L board is the smallest you've sailed... and you're comfortable on it. And you have time and experience sailing a nice longboard.

Sure keep sailing the 160 in Kailua.
And, maybe you haven't seen other bigger boards and bigger sails there... But, I've sailed (rented and sailed) exactly that, there, twice. I agree, it was moderate wind... I wanted my raceboard and a BIG sail from home, the two times I was there.
If you're a bigger guy... don't let smaller guys influence your gear choice out at Kailua... bigger guys need bigger gear (anywhere in the world).

Can you waterstart? If not, take some lessons there. You will gain lots of skill and get more comfortable with smaller boards. And you will have more confidence to go out on smaller stuff.
In the meantime, if you're there, and it's WINDY... sure just put a small sail on your 160L board. It'll be fine, you'll be able to uphaul a small sail if it's windy... you'll be going slower... the fin you have will be fine.
Greg -
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