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How many died last year in the US while kiting ?
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cagjr21150



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can contact the Coast Guard: http://www.uscg.mil/global/mail/

This is the San Francisco Boardsailing Association reply with background to the Coast Guard Bulletin MSIB 13-03 http://www.scribd.com/doc/139057167/SFBA-Safety-Message-and-Background-on-MSIB-13-03

This is the Coast Guard Bulletin MSIB 13-03 http://www.101surfsports.com/images/stories/pdf/4292013coastguard.pdf

I'm guessing you have a kite background and/or kiting experience. You found the number of deaths alarming.

You could try contacing SFBA and review their website for the original CG bulletin: http://www.sfba.org/

BTW, the kiting community is in utter disbelief of the 17 US deaths in 2012.
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2380254&p=791813
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
I get the feeling that there's something going on in the video which isn't evident in the visuals. Maybe it's due to the shallowness of the water, the direction of the wind or a combination of both.


I have seen similar situations here in Montreal. We call it a dome effect, and it happens when the air temperature is much higher than the water temperature. No wind at water level but there is some wind not much higher. The cold air close to water stays on spot and warmer air slides on top of it.

There was a local video done with a kiter in it, but I cannot find it.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13270

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NASA pegs that phenomena at about 20 degrees F difference.
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cagjr21150



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breaking News: The 17 kiting deaths in 2012 is not true. In fact, The SFBA author who put forth the number of deaths in the Background Document http://www.scribd.com/doc/139057167/SFBA-Safety-Message-and-Background-on-MSIB-13-03 actually misunderstood the data that was reported by his source about kiting deaths.

A statement from the misquoted source that had researched kiting deaths:

"First off I am sorry for the confusion and misinformation regarding the "17 kiteboard deaths" as posted in the SFBA safety release. The information came from me in an off the cuff remark during a meeting and I did not know it was going to be included in any written release. I had been actively doing some research for an article I was writing on kiteboarding deaths having lost a friend to a kiteboard death back in 2004. What I should have said is that in my research I had found 17 US Kiteboarding Deaths since 2004 and had also seen Rick Iossi's (FKA) finding in an internet posting that in 2007 alone there were 16 deaths and simply misspoke during the meeting. The 17 number is actually definitely low as it did not include my friend, Alex Caviglia, in 2004 nor did it include Scott Murray who tragically died at Ocean Beach in 2010. I have not done any follow up research on this in over 18 months as the article never materialized. Just from watching the news I know there have been more losses in those 18 months. I have no agenda against kiteboarding - just against death. In fact I am co-owner of a kiteboarding retailer and my agenda there is to see more people kiteboarding, but doing so safely. As I said I did not know the information was going to get included in the release and would most assuredly have wanted to do the proper research before seeing it put in print. As such I have included the XL spreadsheet with links to all of the research which found an additional 15-20 deaths (unverified as much of the information is in foreign languages) internationally in the same time period. I am again profusely sorry if this has in any way taken away from the message at all - Please be safe out there."

I've omitted the names of the SFBA Document author and the kite death researcher and I apologize for any trouble this kerfuffle may have caused.

Incomplete, 18 month old, not intended for release, original research:



The international research on kiting deaths:

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FKA



Joined: 12 Jun 2000
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can appreciate what you are trying to do, you may well have some of the motivations I have had over the last 12 years of tracking severe kitesurfing accidents worldwide. The thing is you have to be very careful about fact checking and qualifying what you state. For instance the first statistics in your spreadsheet, are for fatal accidents worldwide. I would look over what may have been the parent article for more details: http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=4125

I checked a few of the other citations that I didn't recognize in your spreadsheet. The one listed for Kentucky actually happened in Kansas, there was no fatality in 2007 in Florida to my knowledge just a bad accident which was survived by the young man. Some cited in the USA actually happened in Mexico, etc.. I have to type in the URLs as the OCR didn't seem to recognize the characters correctly. So, I stopped after just checking a few.

We need to be very careful about the statistics we cite, serious harm can be done by mistakes no matter how well intended they might be. Taking a negative impression back once it has been cast particularly with the authorities can be very difficult to do. Making that sort of mistake, to that degree with an organization like the USCG is a horrific error. I have been working on preserving access and promoting sustainable kiting for 12 years. It is a difficult, delicate thing with some steps forward and others back. We need to be very careful and deliberate in these efforts to try keep things going while avoiding restrictions and bans against kiting and/or windsurfing.

It is important to note, a threat against one board sport could easily develop into threats other boardsports particularly with regulators. It has happened before, I would urge caution in this regard.

p.s. - I am aware of two kiting fatalities nationwide in the USA in 2012.

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi
http://fksa.org/
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cagjr21150



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The story started with the Coast Guard issuing a bulletin that addressed the safety of Kayaks and Boardsports in the SF Bay area: http://www.scribd.com/doc/138553396/MSIB-13-03-Boardsport-and-Kayak-Safety

Then SFBA wrote a background document about the CG bulletin with the misunderstood mortality statistics.

Finally, the researcher who was misquoted in the SFBA document, wanted the original albeit, incomplete research published, even though the 17 deaths figure was incorrect, to inform of the danger of kiting.

I got stuck in this kerfuffle when i posted to the forum because i was alarmed about the high number of deaths reported in the SFBA document.

I hope this issue is settled. Apologies to all.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cagjr21150 wrote:
The story started with the Coast Guard issuing a bulletin that addressed the safety of Kayaks and Boardsports in the SF Bay area: http://www.scribd.com/doc/138553396/MSIB-13-03-Boardsport-and-Kayak-Safety

Then SFBA wrote a background document about the CG bulletin with the misunderstood mortality statistics.

Finally, the researcher who was misquoted in the SFBA document, wanted the original albeit, incomplete research published, even though the 17 deaths figure was incorrect, to inform of the danger of kiting.

I got stuck in this kerfuffle when i posted to the forum because i was alarmed about the high number of deaths reported in the SFBA document.

I hope this issue is settled. Apologies to all.

Well, if they force us to wear seat belts and install air bags we'll blame it on you ;-D
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1347

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an earlier one that was missed.
http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Peter-Nordby/95277027

I suspect there are others.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13270

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deaths are just part of the story; how about the injuries? Would people rather plow a trench in a boulder jetty with their head and torso or ... fall in the water?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1847

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with FKA. We should be very careful in quoting questionable statistics that may be used as an argument for denying access for kiteboarding, and maybe windsurfing.

Plenty of activities are dangerous. Whitewater kayaking, ice climbing, backcountry skiing and mountain biking can be extremely dangerous if one pushes the limits. I do all these, as well as, kite and windsurf. I came closest to killing myself getting trapped under a 7.4M sail in 18 inches of water!

It is imperative that anyone taking on any of these activities is prepared for the risks and remains attentive. One can become lulled into complacency in any of these activities; so a reminder once in a while is not a bad thing. But, let's not turn this into a kiterbashing exercise!
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