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a few observatons, questions and rants
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outhaul



Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to add that I realize my first rant is all over the place, some of this stuff has been rattling around in my head for quite some time now, thanks for bearing with me. Fact is, I'm going crazy waiting for my season to begin in another month, so this is my fix for now.

I'm definitely not saying Cobra makes bad boards, of course many great boards have been made there over the years and it's definitely not my intent to sound jingoistic.
I'd just like to see more diversity, what would we do if the Cobra factory went down due to some natural disaster? Such first world problems...

Andywind, yes, those seams on Bics can be nasty! Have you seen Bic's spin on them? They now call them something like built in rail protectors on their SUPs, I guess that's a good way to look at it.

Any word on the quality of the new Mistral boards produced in Vietnam?
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2973
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no on the Mistrals

the Cobra factory did have a job action, similar to a strike a few years back

but the issues were resolved.

anyway compared to a new Cobra board , as in current at MSRP

I would go any number of custom:: anytime any place anywhere

you would certainly receive a stronger better made weapon, and then you can even pick the graphics on........
so vampire ,zombie to Barbie doll , to plain white wrapper

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13267

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody's even mentioned the only sails made in the U.S.A., whose owners consider them among the best, often THE best, sails available. And, yes, we've sailed the competition.
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3-phase



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
curious they can use materials then import to the US, while not allowed here


Long story short Smile (First I tried to make a detailed write up but). What happens in Textiles also happens in any other process from I-Phone to Windsurf boards. So take Greenpeace words not mine.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/publications/reports/dirty-laundry/
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/publications/Campaign-reports/Toxics-reports/Toxic-Threads-Under-Wraps/

This reports show that a few substances used to make something you won’t see on the finished product have dangerous environmental impact if not handled / neutralized.
I guess it is up to you and me to make the decision that serves our environmental believes.
Aloha
Jurg

www.windsurfdeal.com
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13267

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
I would go any number of custom:: anytime any place anywhere ... you would certainly receive a stronger better made weapon ...

"Certainly"? No way. Likely? Maybe, with some marques. "Hopefully" is more like it ... even "If you get lucky" with some brands, down to "unlikely" with the most notorious ones.

And that's even with ordinary recreational sailors like myself or even less aggressive. Throw in expert level -- or clumsy -- aerial stunts and the whole durability scale shifts even further.

FAR too many extremely experienced and qualified sailors, most better than I but some not, agree with my assessment for me to have any doubts about it, so I believe that leading people into thinking that customs will solve their durability issues is unwarranted.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2973
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
U2U2U2 wrote:
I would go any number of custom:: anytime any place anywhere ... you would certainly receive a stronger better made weapon ...

"Certainly"? No way. Likely? Maybe, with some marques. "Hopefully" is more like it ... even "If you get lucky" with some brands, down to "unlikely" with the most notorious ones.

And that's even with ordinary recreational sailors like myself or even less aggressive. Throw in expert level -- or clumsy -- aerial stunts and the whole durability scale shifts even further.

FAR too many extremely experienced and qualified sailors, most better than I but some not, agree with my assessment for me to have any doubts about it, so I believe that leading people into thinking that customs will solve their durability issues is unwarranted.


my Dear Fellow... the FIRST word in my dissertation is I, as in I me my.

you ignored the Cobra at MSRP. Would I purchase a 100Liter 2013 RRD Firemove 100 X-Tech at $1829 or a Witchcraft at $1737 delivered ( depending on Euro exchange rate) ? or a 2013 Starboard Kode 86 Freestyle Wave Carbon at $2,199 or a Brian Cartwright Maui custon at $1650 delivered ?

these prices are far removed from the swap meet deal you like to quote, my meaning is rather than spend what I consider big bucks on a plain vanilla board, I would get a keeper, that strikes my fancy.

There are of course horror stories about sailor who have purchased a custom ONLY to find it ill suited for their style or purpose. I have had 1 not so sparkly experience with a custom. I would look at each builder and seek to find as many owners. I have eliminated several in the past, they tend to have personalities that are headstrong, thus they say that is too small in length it need s to be ---, so I move along

the Northwave sails, best in some owners minds suggestion falls in the YMMV group.
Noted that Ezzy sails were NOT nor SAILs other than the initial comments
by the OP, were the topic.
meaning the topic was BOARDSs, Cobra boards, not sails, but then as always things splinter in different directions

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13267

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I clearly addressed only your "you would certainly receive a stronger better made weapon" comment, which your response ignored.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2973
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh really

I read this quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
I would go any number of custom:: anytime any place anywhere ... you would certainly receive a stronger better made weapon ...


and pray tell which board from Cobra has materials like Dyneema ?



LHDD: (Light Heavy Duty) Dyneema®-(50%)-Carbon 16%-glass-epoxy-single-double-triple sandwich. A combination with the structural strength of the HDD and the thinner outside Dyneema skin of the LD construction, for the best mix between weight and strength. Weight 5.5kg*
1 year guarantee**

please note thats GUARANTEE, not warranty

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13267

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does duct taping a piece of titanium or rubber cementing a layer of Buckyballs to a banana make it bulletproof? You know as well as I that the durability of a product depends more on its weakest link than on its strongest one.

I'm glad you like the custom boards you have, and hope they last forever. All I'm saying is that it's not even remotely accurate to tell the general WSing public that custom boards are inherently more durable than OEM boards, implying that all a person has to do to achieve long term structural integrity is to buy custom. Many customs are weaker than many OEMs, whether with individual boards or across a whole line, and a guarantee is no better than the manufacturer who issued it unless it's worth going to court over.

My concern in emphasizing this point is for the buyer tempted to hop online, spend precious bucks, buy a board he's never seen or ridden, get it shipped to him, and only then discover or realize that:
• It doesn't sail as he had hoped, or
• In a day or a season it blistered, or it delammed, or the deck went soft, or a fin or deck box ripped out, or the whole bottom peeled off, or water shot out scores of pinholes, etc ... all things I've seen on new customs of many brands, costing from $1100 to $2,500, or
• That marvelous guarantee depends on getting the board back to a shaper 10 minutes or 10 time zones away.
• One buyer's treasure may be another's bag of dog doo burning in a paper bag on his doorstep.

Neither a guarantee nor a "custom" label assures that $#!+ will not happen. In fact, with some marques it happens way too often. These things are basically bean bags wrapped in eggshells, with too many variables and too much BS to presume that throwing ordinary retail money at the problem solves it. Even extra, totally custom, heavy, expensive, layers of unobtanium are no guarantee of durability ... there's always a weakest link waiting to stretch or snap.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2973
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Dear Fellow, you have certainly exceeded the title of the thread.. rants

It is painful to read your innuendos and gross generalizations, and insert words and your thoughts in my phrase.

You have in the past taken the same bonehead rhetoric concerning customs. many customs are weaker than OEMs ( what is this a alternator offa car ?) what the blue tea cup does that mean.. many, is it the same , less or more. I wrote that I, and then said I me my, its a conversation not a wholesale statement of fact....which you wouldn't know if it punched you in the head, and I'am not retracting anything, for my money I would buy a custom

Certainly lets "imply" that I build custom boards and based on my recommendation, John Q Public will send a deposit and final payment and take my assurance , that he will have a life time new board......
give me a freekin break. I already stated that I eliminate some builders just by a few correspondence. One had more interest than getting into the coffee shop than speaking about board variations, no wonder the business went elsewhere.

their is certainly a weak link ready to snap HERE

I have stopped reading your posts, because of many many reasons, I feel I am in very very good company.
I do read and obviously respond to those where you chose to quote me then insert the Isobars thoughts.

I HAVE come to the conclusion that their are 3 ways to do things according to you.
A. the right way
B. the wrong way
C. the Isobars way

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