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Ezzy Masts Top and Bottom
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5967

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Interesting, Hot sails has interchangeable masts but they say you should always use the longer bottom and the shorter top together and not to jump more than two sizes, i.e., 490 bottom with 460 top etc...
If you use a longer top you will be creating a stiffer mast if this is what you want."


The idea of going will a longer stiffer than normal bottom goes against everything that I've learned over the years. Given the fact that the majority of shape and power is located in the bottom two-thirds of the sail, deviating with a longer stiffer bottom really messes with arguably the most important part of the sail. The top of the sail on the other hand is far less critical overall, as it relates to how well the sail can breathe or exhaust excess power. We can see this in the normal range of downhaul adjustment in most sails today which offers anything from a tight to a loose leech and everything in between. When you think about it, it's virtually impossible to adjust the bottom of the sail to that great a degree. The tuning is pretty much limited to the profile of the foil, and it must be remembered that the shape low in the sail is also influenced by the amount of outhaul used. Moreover, once you've got the bottom of the sail in proper tuning range for a stiffer bottom, the softer than normal top is far too loose and floppy.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3090
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first questioned NoLimitz they said that interchanging sizes , it was not advised, and that it voided the warranty. Obvious this has changed in the past few years, as I have been re educated.

Powerex said much the same, and but did go so far to say the longer top would be preferred if you did this.

so in the past they did not advocate mast combos
where both Hot Sails and Ezzy do


will write to get the Hot Sails take........stay tuned to this Bat Channel

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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 423
Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if it doesn't work out for me I can still always resort to my 460 chinook rdm Very Happy
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
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Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is what the HSM staff said

"" The stiffness for each mast length is different. Long bottom short top makes the mast more like a flex-top mast and the other way around more stiff-top. The sails work far better in the flex-top mode. ""

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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
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Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
here is what the HSM staff said

"" The stiffness for each mast length is different. Long bottom short top makes the mast more like a flex-top mast and the other way around more stiff-top. The sails work far better in the flex-top mode. ""


So basically the preferred mast config for the Zephyr would be longer bottom and shorter top instead of my proposed 430 bottom + 490 top?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5967

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the ideal mast for Hot Sails Maui (HSM) 5.0 is a HSM 400cm constant curve mast exhibiting a stiffer bottom and a softer top characteristics, how would it work with a longer and even stiffer HSM 430 bottom with a much shorter softer HSM 370 top? I seriously doubt that it work well. I wonder what the HSM folks would say about the performance differences between the noted HSM mast combos.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3090
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KevinDo wrote:
U2U2U2 wrote:
here is what the HSM staff said

"" The stiffness for each mast length is different. Long bottom short top makes the mast more like a flex-top mast and the other way around more stiff-top. The sails work far better in the flex-top mode. ""


So basically the preferred mast config for the Zephyr would be longer bottom and shorter top instead of my proposed 430 bottom + 490 top?


HSM is Hot Sails Maui, NOT Ezzy.

take my advise from before
WRITE DAVID EZZY

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
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Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
If the ideal mast for Hot Sails Maui (HSM) 5.0 is a HSM 400cm constant curve mast exhibiting a stiffer bottom and a softer top characteristics, how would it work with a longer and even stiffer HSM 430 bottom with a much shorter softer HSM 370 top? I seriously doubt that it work well. I wonder what the HSM folks would say about the performance differences between the noted HSM mast combos.


i am pretty sure that HSM , does not recommend using more than 1 size difference in the combos , so the 430/370 in your reference is a mute point.

The HSM masts are constant curve FLEX TOP, similar to NP, not opposite to Ezzy but far enough apart to not be similar.

The question here really is mast combos on EZZY masts.

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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 719

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well what works best on an Ezzy is probably not optimal for a Hot sail, I just found the difference interesting.
From what I have read Ezzy masts have a lot of flex in the middle to bottom and they hake a lot of outhaul.
The mast combos for Hot sails are primarily for Ultra light Superfreaks with a type of rigging they call ULUS, ultra light ultra soft, these are the sails I use and how I generally rig them. Much less DH and basically neutral OH.
The mast combos are intended to give the max soft top.
I use the now no longer made Killwell (New Zealand) 92% interchangeable Hot sail masts.
When Killwell stopped making the masts they came out with a Chinese 97% mast not interchangeable that tended to break sometimes.
Now they have out a very light weight 100% skinnier and flexier top mast made in Slovenia or Slovakia? (somewhere Borat is from) Yes apparently the mast is skinnier.
That ends my thread hijack, now back to Ezzy masts, what is the purpose of interchanging Ezzy masts?
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3090
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Hot Sails Ultra 100% is going to be beyond the price range of non millionaire s , a 400 something like $600

Ezzy s combo mast philosophy, my words, are fewer masts in the van,if you study the chart,

and its techy, with sever geek overtones

http://www.ezzy.com/masts/mast-configurator/

you come up with lots of variations.
BTW The Zephyr shows a 460 mast option only.

Of particular note the newest Ezzy sail the 4 batten Panther Elite, of 8 models only 2 have the same size top & bottom recommended. Iam told you can use other mast lengths but the downhaul guide will need to be changed.Or use the visual guides.

Ref your Hot Sails mast comments BB, I use combos, have on the all the HSM sails, not just SFULs , but for the most part I have gained no improvement, in my feeling and ability to the straight same length masts.
310 340 370 400 430 in the van

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