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Sail size question
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VinceSF



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 186
Location: Marin County, CA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fitek wrote:
Wonder if I should pick up a ~3.2 sail, if the wind is gonna be that strong?


Fitek, I am about your weight (140#) and here is my quiver:
3.3, 4.0, 4.6, 5.0. That covers a lot of wind, especially if you have different boards (2 or more)
I used 4.6 most of the time since I am efficient and do not want to sail overpowered.
Your 4.2-5.0 spread is fine. if you plan to sail all summer, I would look at a 4.7 instead, especially if you decide to go to 3rd ave.
Keep in mind we are talking a non race, 4 to 5 batten wave/freestyle sail, which is all you need to progress.(race sails are greatly tougher to use)
What I would do is replace your 430 (unless you plan to get a 5.7 or bigger) with a 400. in the near future you could rig up to a 5.7 on it and this is going to be you main mast in the bay. Most importantly, rigging a 4.2 on a 430 is really bad.
feel free to pm me if you need more pointers on gear. I have been sailing for over 20 years and can guide you towards what's best.
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely get a modern sail without the annoying camber-inducers on the battens. For example: an ezzy wave sail from the 2000s. Make sure it's a good match with your mast, and make sure you learn how to rig it with the right amount of tension so it works like it's supposed to.

I used to sail a 2003(?) ezzy 5.2 that rigged well on either a standard or skinny diameter 430 cm mast. My next smaller sail was a 4.2, and each sail had enough "tuning" range that it was OK not having anything intermediate in size between them. (Of course, I lived in a not-so-windy area of the east coast so I was usually using sails much larger than 5.2, anyway.)

Also, I second the advice about getting a waterstart lesson from the boardsports school. Or at least watch some instructional videos. Having a solid waterstart will unlock a lot more of the fun of sailing in your high-wind area.

Finally, the link in my signature goes to a board and sail size "calculator" based on your weight and the wind strength. It should give you an approximate idea of the gear sizes you'll need for different conditions.

Good Luck,
James

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http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-windsurf-calculator-online.html
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, ANY wave type sail from 1997 or newer is just as good as anything you can buy made in 2013.
Don't be fooled by people who say you need new or less than 5 year old sails. Those people didn't know how to windsurf in 1995, so they thought everything made then is useless nowadaze.
You need not spend more than 100 for each sail that YOU need, at least not for the next few years.
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fitek



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks folks, I got a 5.0 Goya wave sail. Looked for a 4.7 online for around 100 USD without any luck.

Thought about a 3.3 as well for the windier days but decided I'll wait till I really feel the need. I'd need a new mast and would have to start windsurfing at 3rd or Candlestick to really make it worth it...
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Basically, ANY wave type sail from 1997 or newer is just as good as anything you can buy made in 2013.
Don't be fooled by people who say you need new or less than 5 year old sails. Those people didn't know how to windsurf in 1995, so they thought everything made then is useless nowadaze.
You need not spend more than 100 for each sail that YOU need, at least not for the next few years.


What "those" people say you "need" is a pair of variables, but let's assume that somebody buys a NP or Aerotech based on advice that the '13s are measurably better than the '97s. I strongly suggest that both Robert Stroj and Steve Gottlieb were windsurfing in 1997, despite your sarcastic statement to the contrary.

There is a huge difference between a 1997 Sailworks Revolution Pro II and a 2013 Revolution, and just as big between a NP from 97 and a Maui Sails from this year. Certainly you aren't suggesting little or no difference exists between the 2001 Core and a 2013 Mutant?

Economy is wonderful. But you are spinning a somewhat obvious thought about windsurfing on the cheap to its end where the argument fails for being ridiculous. Yes, lots of World Cup wave guys could outperform me on a wave using gear from 1986, but not a single one would ever say that that old stuff works anywhere near as well as the new stuff.

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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem here is.....for WHO ?
For you, who has ridden new sails every year for the past 30, that is true.
For the OriginalPoster, who knows little of the difference of '97 vs '13, except the price, the OLD SAILS are lighter in weight, have more low end, barely lose out in top end, are lighter in weight, are lighter in weight.
For someone like me, who was about the same level then and now, the difference between a '13 vs a good '97 is miniscule. The new sail doesn't last longer, is no easier to rig, doesn't go faster, doesn't plane as early, is more mast sensitive, all negatives.
Now if you buy a sail with it's correct mast, the gains are noticable. BUT, here we're talking about a smaller sail size which REQUIRES a shorter mast for the sail, so in this case, basically one mast for EACH sail.
You certainly can't advocate that to a relative beginner sailor.
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fitek



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the spirited debate on my behalf.

I got the sail and just bought a 400cm skinny mast to go with it. Looking forward to the first windy day where I can escape working at 2pm...
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Basically, ANY wave type sail from 1997 or newer is just as good as anything you can buy made in 2013.
Don't be fooled by people who say you need new or less than 5 year old sails. Those people didn't know how to windsurf in 1995, so they thought everything made then is useless nowadaze.
You need not spend more than 100 for each sail that YOU need, at least not for the next few years.


I completely agree with zirtaeb. (Not that it matters, since the Original Poster has now made a purchase Smile
But... just for interesting conversation...
Look again at what he said... and "who" he said it to.
Zirtieb is talking about '97 wave sails, or bump and jump sails or free-ride sails. And he's making this suggestion to a newbie. I completely agree with all he said in both posts.
I think Dan W also makes some good points. But in this instance, I'm going with Z.
Here's some related proof -
Last summer, I raced in about half of the Gorge Cup Slalom races. And, I raced in all of the "National's Slalom" held in Hood River. (Both at the same beach... but different competitive fields.. and all races spread out from May into Aug.
I am just an avg Gorge sailor... and have only done fun recreational races, and have only done a few of them, spread out over 20 years.
I am way Way, WAY behind Phil Mcgain, Bruce Peterson and Tyson Poor. I am in the bottom half of the fleet every time, every heat, all summer.
But, it is still fun Smile
For all of us in the back of the fleet... we are very late to the start.. and we fall on at least 1 jibe, every "8 jibe" slalom race.
All my peers in the back half are on newer gear, from the sail to the board.
I am sailing on basic rec. gear from '92 - '94.
And this is not craigslist junk... this is gear I bought new, and have taken care of. (Although, I would not be able to give it away at a swap meet.)
Anyway, the point is that YES, in many cases new gear is better. And Phil, Bruce and Tyson need to be on the latest gear to try and beat each other.
But back where I am... when you're late to the start.. and the odds are high that I'll fall.. well then, it doesn't matter as much.
I discovered that my gear has about the same range as my friends on new gear. I found that we both slowed down in lulls. I found that we both sometimes got launched in strong gusts. I found that we both accellerated about the same from jibes. Our ability is about the same. When I lost my balance and fell, they beat me. When they lost their balance and fell, I beat them.
Anyway, I AM NOT saying that new gear isn't better, cause I think it is. But the differences aren't huge.
Also, I acknowledge... a newbie does not know what old gear to buy, and they don't know the history of it. I know the history of my stuff. And it is all matched with the right components.

Anyway, in this instance I agree with Z.
People should not say all old gear is junk or difficult to sail or lacking in range. Because if you got the right stuff.. it could provide a sailor (especially a new one) MANY fun years of learning enjoyment.
But I want to keep the windsurfing companies in business !!
So I think that after you learn and gain experience, you should go out and buy a lot of new gear from your fav store.
I did that a lot in the 80's and the early 90's.
And I will do it again Smile

Have fun. Greg -
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