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Can't rig North Natural 6.6 and other questions
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rangerider



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject: Can't rig North Natural 6.6 and other questions Reply with quote

I have a north natural 6.6 from a few years ago which was my first sail purchase from The House in St. Paul near my home. They sold it to me with a Powerex 30% 460 cm carbon mast and at the time I took it home and rigged it without appreciating any problems. I also purchased a Natural 8.1m sail and 490 Powerex 30% mast at the same time.

The 8.1 rigs fine and sails fine. The 6.6 has never rigged properly on the mast I purchased with it but it took me a year to figure it out - it sails terribly. The mast is relatively too stiff for the sail as the luff sleeve bags in front of the mast when the leech tension is correct or alternatively if I crank in the downhaul to get the mast to bow forward and tension the luff sleeve then the top of the sail if overly loose. Anyway, I assume the sail is properly made and that it could still work well with an appropriate mast. Any suggestions?

I am planning to get either an Ezzy Lion or Cheetah 7.5m as I am so happy with my Lion 9.5m which rigs fine on my (heavy 490) mast. I was contemplating getting an Ezzy RDM 460 to go with my new Lion/Cheetah - what do you think? Is there a good chance the 460 RDM will be a decent match to my Natural 6.6 which is basically unused and currently useless? Thanks
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure it will be a good match. I have a 460 Ezzy and it fits my Ka Koyote perfectly. North have the same bend curve as far as I know.
By the way I'm also straggling with a Powerex mast / 490 speed 100 on a Retro/, the same problem pretty much Sad.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2424

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rig the 6.6 and PX again.
Downhaul till the 3.5 batten from the top is loose and wrinkled, but not to the 4th batten.
Set the outhaul the correct amount, so the sail doesn't touch the inside of the boom.
NOW look at it.
If it's still wrong, call HOUSE and tell them to take back your mast and send you another one.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3089
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Powerex masts you have , are they the newer China made or the older Utah ? I have yet to see what the curve is on the newer ones , but surmise its constant curve.

http://www.unifiber.net/2013/mast-selector

on this chart you will see Ezzy & North are close, Ezzy being a little softer, of note also is that a SDM is the same , Ezzy doesn't make one.

IMO part of the Natural issue is the lower carbon content, 30% .

My 5 on the rest, I use RDMs in 6.0 down, sometimes 6.5, sometimes not.

No choice on a 8.5 its RDM 490.

if you ask David Ezzy he would tell you that the mast bend curve is more important than if it SDM or RDM.

I had a Natural 6.6 and used a 100% Powerex, sailed great, I still use this mast on Ezzy Freeeride 6.5 & 7.5 , even tho I have the correct Ezzy RDM in 460, my preference.

What I have found is that a standard dia mast will be more accommodating if its NOT the ideal curve, than a corresponding skinny would, if high in carbon it will very well could be lighter as well.

I think a 460 SDM is a option for the sails presented,the Natural and Cheetah, not so much the Lion, because of the cams, but you get enough sets for different diameter masts .

I don't feel that the RDM 460 Ezzy would be a bad choice by any means, and may fit better into smaller sails which we aren't aware of.

personal preference here but I like the Cheetah in 8.5 more so than the Lion.

_________________
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4Boards....May the fours be with you

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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1304
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange, I have a 490 100 Powerex that I rig my 9.5 Retro on, and it rigs
perfectly. I do use a long extension, but It's not extended all the way.
Maybe 30cm.

-Craig

adywind wrote:
I'm sure it will be a good match. I have a 460 Ezzy and it fits my Ka Koyote perfectly. North have the same bend curve as far as I know.
By the way I'm also straggling with a Powerex mast / 490 speed 100 on a Retro/, the same problem pretty much Sad.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been told that there has been several editions of the Powerexes thru the years and some have been spot on with Sailworks. Unfortunately mine is not one of them. It was suspiciously cheap after all, Chinese made probably. It doesn't bend enough in the middle , the luff sleeve is loose there and the batten above the boom is hard to get on the other side after a turn. I have to over downhaul to get it so-so .
Quote:

Strange, I have a 490 100 Powerex that I rig my 9.5 Retro on, and it rigs
perfectly.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5961

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2,

The Unifiber chart is quite informative about the different sail brands out there. In my view, it's a smart move on their part to make a range of masts that cover all bases. I have to admit though, I've never heard of the brand before. Are they a European brand, and if so, where are they being manufactured? Is it Italy? It was an Italian company that made my older Gulftechs, and the one Hansen mast I bought in 2007. These masts matched perfectly in my sails. When I broke the Hansen, I was totally bummed.

As an aside, I recently had the opportunity to rig a No Limitz 400cm Sumo top with my No Limitz 400cm Original bottom. The extra stiffness up top definitely yielded a notable improvement over the Original top and bottom combination. Also, the No Limitz folks will sell top or bottom components, so I'm going to buy the Sumo top.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14447

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I "MCSed" an armload of Utah Powerexes 20 years ago and found wide discrepancies. I'm betting your more recent ones are much more accurate.

I don't know your skill level, so don't be insulted when I suggest it may be a rigging error. A very experienced lower-48 states and wintertime Baja sailor once panicked when his dealer rigged his balky new sail for him in response to his complaints. As the dealer pulled on the downhaul, this self-described advanced sailor yelled, "STOP! YOU'RE BENDING THE MAST!!"

???

Mike \m/
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rangerider



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've rigged the 6.6 on the 460 powerex many times, as I have become more experienced and learned how sails are supposed to sail, be tuned, and look when properly rigged I am confident that this sail/mast combo doesn't work. My 8.1 natural rigs well and sails well on the Powerex 490 30% mast purchased at the same time. Maybe there is something wrong with this particular 460 mast and not a general problem with the Powerex 30 mast. Unfortunately it has been a few years and I would not feel right making an issue with The House, I think it was an honest mistake and I'm sure they would have rectified the problem if notified in a reasonable time-frame. I am just trying to salvage the sail for my own use. I am probably going to be buying more Ezzy sails going forward and I like the mix and match concept for their masts which is why I am asking specifically about the 460 RDM. Thanks for the help.
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rangerider



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso, I hear what you are saying. When I first rigged the sail I used the recommended luff specs for the sail and downhauled to the max and the sail tune was decent despite slack/bagginess in front of the mast, the sail rotated very poorly as the front of the battens extended past the mast. This summer I thought, "well obviously I need more downhaul" so I extended the mast base well beyond the recommended luff measurement and down hauled until the mast curve matched the luff sleeve curve and was reasonably taut (consistent with what I usually do with my other sails) - unfortunately I was left with half a sail as the upper half was totally loose - I tried to sail it this way and it was terrible - I let out some downhaul and the front of the luff sleeve bagged out again. I suppose it could be a sail problem but I am going to be getting a 7.5 which will likely require another 460 either way and will give me a chance to test it out, just looking for suggestions for replacement masts I guess.
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