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Gun Nuts
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or shooting the radio instead!
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4115

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3t7j2tUec

Twice as many people are killed with clubs and hammers than assault rifles. It is the hand gun that does most of the damage.

What good would registering an assault rifle do? A guy who has a bad day and decides to shoot up his co-workers in a rage, doesn't rationally think about the consequences. You could register all the looneys in the country and it wouldn't stop one killing.

Hand gun ownership should have a minimum age of 30, except in the case of wilderness type usage. It is pretty critical to carry a large handgun in the Alaskan wilderness. Over 40 with stellar criminal and credit score should be automatic concealed carry approval.

BTW the guy who stopped the Gabby Gifford shooting, had a concealed carry permit.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4115

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our founding fathers sure got it..
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14163

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
I have attended a gun show with a gun collector friend and was amazed at how easily one could purchase guns and ammo. This needs to be fixed. Magazine capacity should also be addressed as suggested. I am still trying to find a fellow gun owner, that I know, who is against a well written assault weapons ban.

Why?
A meta-review of 51 studies showed unanimously that an armed citizenry saves lives.
AR-15's are arguably (the other contender is the 20-Ga short-barreled shotgun) the best home defense weapon for the average (i.e., lightly trained) homeowner.
The guys against whom we're defending ourselves have unlimited firepower and may outnumber us.
They also have unlimited access to any weapons and ammunition ... especially if they live anywhere near Westchester Co., NY.
Virtually, maybe literally, all mass shootings occurred in zones or venues which already ban guns. That's why many of them were chosen.
Of course no one is against a well-written law; by definition "well-written" implies it is written to express and achieve a popular, rational, effective goal. Who's not for a well-written law banning obesity or sloth or stupidity?

Our local newspaper op-ed page illustrated the vacuous thought processes and irrationality of those who fear guns when a citizen wrote that firearms are dangerous and have no place in a firearms safety class.

For the dumb masses here, that's like saying cars are dangerous and have no place in a driver's education class. Or computers are dangerous and have no place in an internet class. Food is fattening and has no place in our stomachs.

Is a glimmer of understanding appearing over anyone's head?

The hell with gold; buy guns and ammo. Gold is far less useful and the price of many guns and much ammunition will skyrocket very soon. But be selective, as any Executive Order from that dic(tator) in the White House will not stand up to Congressional, Constitutional, or Supreme Court scrutiny. He only THINKS he's God. Can anyone BELIEVE the theatrics and fallacy of Obama's intent to surround himself with children during today's upcoming anti-gun speech ... especially so soon after so many children died in gun-free zones and were saved by an armed mother hiding in her closet?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3554
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...let me get this straight....the great Oracle of the Tri-Cities ...the one who said he never met someone making more than 180 grand/yr, is now saying to dump Gold? duly noted
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1945
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The failure of statistical analysis is palpable in some of these posts. Handgun shootings are certainly the most prevalent for several reasons, two of which are their wide distribution and ability to conceal. Handgun deaths remain an issue, and all are tragic regardless of purpose or cause. Yet, most handguns make it notoriously difficult to hit a person beyond arm's length and pack far less of a punch than most so-called assault-style weapons.

When the concern is the massacres by assualt weapons, stating that clubs, knives and throwing stars also kill, or that more deaths occur on highways than by bullet are not germane observations no matter how true.

Still, lessons can be learned from highway fatalities, because very strict regulations, restrictions and laws together have combined to reduce the fatality and serious injury rate a great deal. It is possible -despite the naysayers- to regulate arms in a way that both respects the 2nd Amendment and reduces firearm deaths and injury from a murderous circumstance. I'm usually loathe to quote Joe Biden, but he got it right when insisting that our inability to get a perfect, comprehensive solution doesn't mean we shouldn't act.

Isobars' lunatic rantings aside, all police-sponsored weapons training is basically analogous to sexual health instruction for teenagers. It might not be abstractly ideal, but birth control use and pregnancy information is critical to the welfare of teenagers, so we do it despite the wish of most that each abstain until after high school, at least.

Part of NY's new law is rife for challenge insofar it may allow (I've not read it yet) the police to seize guns without a court order if psychiatrist reports a patient as posing a threat to others -even if that threat is the patient stating his real desire to beat his mother with his fists and no discussion of firearms occurs. I suspect a 4th Amendment violation there, but the wording of the law must be read.

Even so, the rest of the NY law is pretty good and provides a safe harbor for all weapons that complied with the old law. This grandfather clause ought to prove that there is no intent to grab guns.

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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1945
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The failure of statistical analysis is palpable in some of these posts. Handgun shootings are certainly the most prevalent for several reasons, two of which are their wide distribution and ability to conceal. Handgun deaths remain an issue, and all are tragic regardless of purpose or cause. Yet, most handguns make it notoriously difficult to hit a person beyond arm's length and pack far less of a punch than most so-called assault-style weapons.

When the concern is the massacres by assualt weapons, stating that clubs, knives and throwing stars also kill, or that more deaths occur on highways than by bullet are not germane observations no matter how true.

Still, lessons can be learned from highway fatalities, because very strict regulations, restrictions and laws together have combined to reduce the fatality and serious injury rate a great deal. It is possible -despite the naysayers- to regulate arms in a way that both respects the 2nd Amendment and reduces firearm deaths and injury from a murderous circumstance. I'm usually loathe to quote Joe Biden, but he got it right when insisting that our inability to get a perfect, comprehensive solution doesn't mean we shouldn't act.

Isobars' lunatic rantings aside, all police-sponsored weapons training is basically analogous to sexual health instruction for teenagers. It might not be abstractly ideal, but birth control use and pregnancy information is critical to the welfare of teenagers, so we do it despite the wish of most that each abstain until after high school, at least.

Part of NY's new law is rife for challenge insofar it may allow (I've not read it yet) the police to seize guns without a court order if psychiatrist reports a patient as posing a threat to others -even if that threat is the patient stating his real desire to beat his mother with his fists and no discussion of firearms occurs. I suspect a 4th Amendment violation there, but the wording of the law must be read.

Even so, the rest of the NY law is pretty good and provides a safe harbor for all weapons that complied with the old law. This grandfather clause ought to prove that there is no intent to grab guns.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5208

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan--dead on. A failure of statistical analysis, evidenced by the fingers of our Richland rightie, is evident with this comment:

Quote:
A meta-review of 51 studies showed unanimously that an armed citizenry saves lives.


I don't want to go all Freud on our Columbia River Branch Davidian, but I suspect that he has had these cognitive problems all of his life, and that's why he is so angry. I had employees, including registered engineers, that were incapable of evaluating evidence in their daily jobs. Their biases overwhelmed their thinking capacity. Their work had to be repeatedly corrected, they lost out in competitions for promotions that they thought they deserved, and they became steadily angrier and more out of touch with reality. Sound like anyone you know?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14163

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we just watched his gun speech. He had kids on stage and a beautiful Connecticut Mom who lost her kid in Newtown, but no mention of the Georgia Mom whose newly acquired handgun saved her children's lives last week or of any of the 200-some such cases I posted just days ago. She was very fortunate that her attacker's will to persist expired when it did, because the six bullets in her revolver did not stop him. Had he persisted, or had he not been alone, she and her twin kids would be dead now, and the 10-round magazine limit Obama wants will cost some innocent lives.

And no mention of the $52,000 each man, woman, and child owes, 35% of which is specifically due to Obama's spending spree ... an issue polls show is almost 10-fold more important to Americans than gun control.

On the TV right now: "House Democrats introduce legislation to eliminate the federal debt ceiling".

NY Gov Cuomo has limited magazines to 7 rounds for law-abiding citizens, followed by some irrelevant shouting about shooting deer (which, for the irrational bleeding hearts, has nothing to do with the Second Amendment. It very specifically addresses defense, which small magazines inhibit).


Last edited by isobars on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5208

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if I bought the libertarian and effectiveness arguments, which I don't, I think there is a larger strategic question that involves the mid-term elections. I believe that if Congress fails to act at all, with the Republicans blocking action, the Democrats can and will use their foot dragging to change the House in 2014. I think that smart Republicans realize that gun control and immigration reform are both critical to their remaining relevant. But are there enough of them?

Evidence is sadly lacking on this forum.
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