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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1170
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
From the Democrats in NY. Do they think we are stupid?

They may or may not come to fruition,” Cuomo said.

Instead of the seven-bullet limit on gun magazines, the changes are expected to allow 10-bullet clips, which, sources said, can be used at shooting ranges. Gun owners would then be on the honor system to put only seven bullets in the clip.

“There is no such thing as a seven-bullet magazine. That doesn’t exist, so you really have no practical option,” Cuomo said on Wednesday.

Yeah, the guy is pissed at his wife, he'll just put 7 bullets in the mag....


I'd be more impressed if people learn the difference from a "clip" and a "magazine" (yes there is one), or as important the difference between a "jam" (which is something you put on toast) and a "malfunction"...
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1470

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok John, we are all waiting.

Clips and magazines both hold multiple bullets, but I guess there is a dividing line on numbers that generate the two definitions, or maybe it's the type of weapon if any of this matters, but the curious still want to know.

The college student that killed himself when his room mate called police when threatened, had some IED's (never defined), a 45 and a 22 assault style rifle (as I remember without researching). The media needs some help when definitions come into play. A news station on TV (don't recall if it was local or national), said the student had an "22 caliber, automatic assault weapon". Ignorance or hype, who knows.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4104

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DHS buys 1.6 billion rounds of ammo, but cops on the street have none. If I were paranoid, I'd think the Feds are cooking up a coop....BTW, the military don't let personell carry loaded weapons around the bases, so they'd be useless. Laughing

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/police-departments-beg-and-barter-ammo-while-dhs-buys-16-billion

http://www.infowars.com/big-sis-refuses-to-answer-congress-on-ammo-purchases/
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1941
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
DHS buys 1.6 billion rounds of ammo, but cops on the street have none. If I were paranoid, I'd think the Feds are cooking up a coop....BTW, the military don't let personell carry loaded weapons around the bases, so they'd be useless. Laughing

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/police-departments-beg-and-barter-ammo-while-dhs-buys-16-billion

http://www.infowars.com/big-sis-refuses-to-answer-congress-on-ammo-purchases/


Steven, I looked at your first link. It gives no source or evidence for the assertion that DHS bought 1.6 bb rounds, just that people want answers as to why that much was, or is only said to have been, purchased.

Your second link is the internal link from the first. That didn't reveal anything about whether DHS made such a purchase.

"When did you stop beating your wife?" That's about all I see in those two pieces. Innuendo is NOT fact.

BTW, here is some facts contained in direct-source links: http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/apr/30/chain-email/chain-email-says-homeland-security-purchasing-many/

What say you?

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1470

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,

I trust Snopes too, but after checking the dozens and dozens of articles on line about the ammo purchases (armored vehicles too), one has to wonder where all the hype is coming from. The paranoid right, probably, but it does look like a number of congressmen have taken the hook and have said that they will ask Secretary Janet Napolitano about the issue. Hopefully there will be a straight answer and not an evasive one. I doubt that Snopes has the inside line on secret government operations.

If all this is just normal ammunition purchasing by DHS, why is there such a shortage of ammunition on the general market? If you smell smoke, you naturally will look for fire. We shall see.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1170
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Ok John, we are all waiting.

Clips and magazines both hold multiple bullets, but I guess there is a dividing line on numbers that generate the two definitions, or maybe it's the type of weapon if any of this matters, but the curious still want to know.


Actually not even close (other than yes, it does hold bullets). A magazine is a box type mechanism that holds bullets that you insert into a weapon, normally from the bottom or the side. A clip is a mental "clip" that holds the bullets in place (usually from the rear of the bullets) and you load it into the weapon, usually from the top. When the last round is fired, the clip is expended automatically from the weapon. Not many weapons use a clip, an example would be a M-1 Garand. Just about everything else is a magazine. Or course there are also loading clips and stripper clips, which aid in loading bullets into a magazine, but they are not involved in the firing of the weapon, just in the mass storage of the bullets.

For those who refuse to believe it is true without a link Rolling Eyes here is one...

http://www.minutemanreview.com/2008/09/clip-vs-magazine-lesson-in-firearm.html


Last edited by johnl on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1170
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:


The college student that killed himself when his room mate called police when threatened, had some IED's (never defined), a 45 and a 22 assault style rifle (as I remember without researching). The media needs some help when definitions come into play. A news station on TV (don't recall if it was local or national), said the student had an "22 caliber, automatic assault weapon". Ignorance or hype, who knows.


Without knowing the facts, I don't know. But to help...

a .22 cal bullet is a rimfire bullet. It gets ignited by the firing pin or hammer striking the edge of the casing. These are normally very small and used for target shooting at up to 50 yards and plinking. The number .22 is the diameter of the bullet in inches.

a .223 cal bullet is a centerfire bullet. It gets ignited by the firing pin or hammer striking the center primer in the casing. This is also the measured diameter of the bullet. As you can tell, not much bigger than a .22 BUT the big difference is the centerfire vs. rimfire. The .223 is the standard bullet of the US used in the M-16 and other weapons.

Most "assault type" rifles are semi-automatic. This means for each time you press the trigger a bullet comes out. Some can be fully automatic which means for each time you press and hold the trigger it continues to fire. Then of course there are also burst type guns which fire a set number of rounds per trigger pull.

I don't know of any .22 cal automatic assault rifles which in itself makes me doubt the level of correctness of the article. And if it truly was one, then it was mostly likely a .22 cal "knockoff" of an assault rifle and somebody, somehow converted it to fully automatic. The odds of that however are small and mostly likely the author doesn't know his/her weapons so who knows what the heck it was.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1470

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below is what I heard from several media sources, but my point above was that some media sources can't get it right.

Quote:
In his room, investigators found four makeshift explosive devices in a backpack, a .45-caliber handgun, a .22-caliber tactical rifle and a couple of hundred rounds of ammunition, police said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Florida-student-kills-self-did-he-plan-attack-4365153.php#ixzz2OIjtpCim


There appear to be lots of 22 caliber tactical rifles.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=22+caliber+tactical+rifles&qpvt=22+caliber+tactical+rifles&FORM=IGRE
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5808

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.22 and .223. It could simply be that the 3 was left off for one reason or another.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1943

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to answer this. Where I come from, we call all of the .22x cartridges as a "22 caliber". This includes the .22 long rifle, .22 short, .22mag (all rim fire), as well as, the .223 and the 22 hornet, which are center fire.

But, we also call magazines clips even if we know the difference. Wink
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