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Gun Nuts
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont believe that in our society that we should have guns,
mayor Ed Koch
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3539

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which gun control measures did these pols sponsor to take away everyone's guns?
Who is Barry Hussein?
Do you have links for these statements or are you quoting the NRA?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a good thing that this site is rich in irony--it is depauparate in logic coming from the right. CB asks why we don't have more reasoned discussion--but look at the responses from beagleboy. Dog lite? When a response points out that the Supreme Court has said that guns can be regulated, he responds with ad hominem attacks. Highlighting, of course, the irony of Isobars complaint about ad hominem attacks. Mr Nasty himself.

There is a right to own a gun and keep it in your house for self-defense, and I have seen no serious legislative proposals that would end that. What I would like to see is a registration and background check system that 1) makes sure that those who buy a gun, with either initial purchase or secondary purchase, do not have a criminal record or documented history of mental instability. The Supreme Court has said that such restrictions are permissable. 2) Elimination of the gun show loophole. 3) Adequate funding for law enforcement, including ATF, for enforcement of existing laws that prohibit gun ownership by felons and felons on probation. 4) eliminating of the limitation on the authority of the ATF to collect data on gun crimes and make it available to local law enforcement agencies--put into place by Oklahoma representative Todd Tiahrt at the request of the NRA http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/us/legislative-handcuffs-limit-atfs-ability-to-fight-gun-crime.html?pagewanted=all 5) gun registration that requires liability insurance, as it does for owning a car, and sufficient fees to fund the reasonable regulation of gun ownership by those who should not.

None of this is confiscation of guns, and it would be more effective than Feinstein's proposal to ban large magazine weapons. But the NRA has essentially prevented funding of law enforcement efforts, most successfully the gun show loophole and the Tiahrt amendment. In California the Attorney General has implemented a program that takes the guns out of the hands of felons. The NRA opposes all such regulation because the black market in guns increases sales for the gun manufacturers. The end result? 113 dead in the streets of Oakland last year. The response from the wing nuts? Nothing logical, just name calling.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
The end result? 113 dead in the streets of Oakland last year. The response from the wing nuts? Nothing logical, just name calling.


yep, and I'm sure the very STRONG criminal element in Oakland has nothing to do with the killings. The guns are just out there killing everybody. I'm also sure that most guns used in the killings in Oakland were not purchased legally. While I may or may not agree with your arguements above this quote, at least they were well presented. Adding this onto the end to "make your point" really just takes away from it if you know Oakland at all (yep worked as an LEO right next door to it, and Oakland criminals did not stay home)....
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnl--The point I am making is that the loopholes created by the NRA are responsible for a flood of guns entering the market. That in turn drives the price of guns down. To be sure, criminals in Oakland can and do buy guns on the streets in West Oakland. Targeting the movement of those guns, from unregulated gun shows to secondary sales, is not impossible--or even that difficult. The law enforcement efforts are hindered by the gun show loophole and the Tiahart amendment, and by lack of funds. Registration of a weapon with a risk, while it should be legal, should also include reasonable fees to make sure that it is used in the legal manner. We require that of the producers of much less deadline substances--air and water pollutants discharged from industries and cities. So there ought to be fees on the use of guns and ammunition that reflect the cost of those materials, when abused, to the general public. The NRA has prevented that--because such measures would increase the price of guns and reduce their sales. The wing nuts contribution to the substantive argument? Barry Hussein. Name calling.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry Hussein Soetoro was the name he used to go by but It seems people don't want to be reminded that he was born and raised a muslim.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2768

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
Barry Hussein Soetoro was the name he used to go by but It seems people don't want to be reminded that he was born and raised a muslim.

So what if he was?
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A politician cannot come out and say they want to ban the private ownership of guns because while this may buy some votes on the far left it will lose more votes towards people in the middle.
The proposed regulations must seem reasonable.
But of course their agenda is to keep chipping away over time so eventually they can ban them completely.
This is what has happened in other countries such as England and each step of the way they claimed that they were not trying to take all the guns until in the end this is basically where they ended up. Now in England they don't even have free speech.
Some of these regulations would sound reasonable if they weren't coming from the same people and pressure groups that are trying to force all kinds of over reaching government controls down our throats such as socialized medicine which will eventually someday lead to forced abortions and euthanasia for the handicapped and elderly in the name of population control.
Yes, some loopholes need to be closed, but more importantly regulations already on the books need to be enforced. How about use a gun go to jail? why are the gun grabbers against this?
Guns should be locked up in a safe, if they are stolen because they were left unsecure then used in a crime this should be a violation.
It seems the liberals want the mentally ill to roam the streets and the criminals to have their hands slapped while they punish the law abiding.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
beaglebuddy wrote:
Barry Hussein Soetoro was the name he used to go by but It seems people don't want to be reminded that he was born and raised a muslim.

So what if he was?

So why get upset when you are reminded of this? I'm just calling him by his correct given name.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beagle bailey. Just one flaw among many in your paranoid screed. The Washington D. C. case that expanded gun rights explicitly prohibited trigger guards and safes as government imposed restraints. The government may not require such things.

If you want to improve things, or protect things, it is useful to understand how things are now, and why.

The right to own a gun for self defense is a liberty. But the exercise of that right without responsible is not liberty, it is license. It might be good for you to understand the difference.
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