myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Gun Nuts
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 71, 72, 73 ... 161, 162, 163  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 433
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you mac! Anyone used to be able to buy dynamite until a disgrunteled school treasurer blew up the Bath consolidated School in Bath Michigan in May of 1927, killing 38 school children an 6 adults. Google" Bath school disaster" for more details.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5575

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gun nuts and the wing nuts are in a state of denial, repeatedly claiming that it is the messenger, not the message that gives them headaches. Not so, it is the message and the acts of the Republicans that are repugnant. One of the best articles I've seen on the money behind gun politics is here: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/whos-profiting-from-oaklands-gun-violence/Content?oid=3467897

I will summarize the ways in which the Re-thugs have been the whore for the gun industry:

1. In 2003 Congress, at the urging of the gun industry, based the first of amendments called the Tiahrt amendments, that blocked public access to the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms) data base. You can get the NRA's take on how reasonable this is here: http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2013/tiahrt.aspx This allows unschooled and unscrupulous gun nuts (and those like Iso who seem to have forgotten everything he was taught about statistics in engineering school) to argue anecdotally that guns increase safety, because allowing people to do research on actual data is prohibited.

2. In 2006 Congress changed the authorization for ATF to require Senate confirmation of the director of the ATF, assuring a compliant director who would not rock the boat on gun violence.

3. The gun industry enjoys nearly unique insulation from product liability laws, thanks to the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act of 2005. Big surprise, it was drafted by lobbyists for the gun industry.

4. The gun industry also ensures that Universities that do research on gun violence are punished--in June 1996, the House Appropriations Commitee cut over $2 million from the budget of the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. Just coincidentally the amount they had spent on firearms research.

Many of you already know about the gun show loophole, and you can read for yourself the amount of money that arms manufactures spend on lobbying and the NRA. License indeed. The NRA is nothing more than a shill--mrgybe would claim stooge--for arms profiteers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1547

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac said:
Quote:
But that amendment's genesis was the technology of 1791, when it took 20 seconds to reload. Now it takes 20 seconds to fire a full 50 rounds from a semi-automatic pistol. Claiming the right to own guns without regulations that would provide for some balance and account for the impacts on others is not liberty, it is license.


When the second amendment was written, taking 20 seconds to reload was the same for opposing forces. Now that you can fire 50 rounds in 20 seconds is still the same for opposing forces. If the second amendment was needed to defeat or prevent tyranny, then it makes sense that the right of the people to be armed should allow them to be armed with weapons that are equal to those that would threaten them. Actually, it's not balanced today since the government is allowed to have an use automatic weapons and the public is not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2768

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:

When the second amendment was written, taking 20 seconds to reload was the same for opposing forces. Now that you can fire 50 rounds in 20 seconds is still the same for opposing forces.

Our government has thermonuclear devices, Techno.

How many dozen of those should you be allowed to have to "oppose tyranny"?
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1547

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno, either you missed the point or just choose to ignore it, but I would expect nothing less.

I am not overly concerned about tyranny in the US for two reasons. The public would not tolerate it and would fight with all its might, plus if anyone in government was thinking that way, they know it would not be successful. I also believe that if there was ever a left wing movement toward pure socialism, the military would stand with the right if there was widespread rebellion.

This of course is all fantasy and nothing is going to happen, but one big reason is the second amendment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2768

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
pueno, either you missed the point or just choose to ignore it, but I would expect nothing less.

I am not overly concerned about tyranny in the US for two reasons. The public would not tolerate it and would fight with all its might, plus if anyone in government was thinking that way, they know it would not be successful. I also believe that if there was ever a left wing movement toward pure socialism, the military would stand with the right if there was widespread rebellion.

This of course is all fantasy and nothing is going to happen, but one big reason is the second amendment.

Techno, you sidestepped the obvious issue, but I would expect nothing less.

Your argument was, "The government has XYZ, so we should have the same XYZ."

You said, "If the second amendment was needed to defeat or prevent tyranny, then it makes sense that the right of the people to be armed should allow them to be armed with weapons that are equal to those that would threaten them. Actually, it's not balanced today since the government is allowed to have an use automatic weapons and the public is not."

You claim this as your justification for why you should be allowed to own assault weapons.

My question stands: Since the government has thermonuclear weapons, should the public have the same right of ownership?
_______

BTW.... I agree with you concerning the public not standing for tyranny. But in my opinion, the tyranny is coming from the fruitcake gun owners and the insane, industry-owned NRA.

(And, just so you know, I own a rifle. I have ZERO fear that anybody's going to take it.)
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5575

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Santayana was absolutely correct. The second amendment was part of a bill of rights that was necessary to assure ratification of the Constitution. At that time the Federal government was very weak, and the individual states did fear tyranny from a stronger central government. So the amendment, in clear language that has been tortured by the current right-wing Supreme Court, calls for strong state militias. Arguments for gun ownership at the time involved annual training by State militias.

Now the Federal government has the largest army in the world, and polices the whole world. It is a fantasy by the wing nuts to think that anything short of tanks would represent the force necessary to stop military tyranny. Instead, the limitations to tyranny are political--most significantly the turn over of the presidency at least every 8 years.

A little knowledge and paranoia gets these wing nuts into some strange corners.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14627

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
I am not overly concerned about tyranny in the US for two reasons. The public would not tolerate it and would fight with all its might, plus if anyone in government was thinking that way, they know it would not be successful. I also believe that if there was ever a left wing movement toward pure socialism, the military would stand with the right if there was widespread rebellion.

This of course is all fantasy and nothing is going to happen, but one big reason is the second amendment.

Tyranny in the U.S. probably began centuries ago, but just like the national debt, has grown astronomically in the last four years and Obama has promised from the dais that both will grow much more dramatically in the next four. Up to the point of gun confiscation -- the objective of a bill in the Missouri legislature as we type -- it will be tolerated if the heat is turned up gradually. The military will not help; the man soon-to-be in charge of our military as SecDef Hagel, is self-evidently an empty-headed Obama sycophant puppet who clearly has no idea what his new job is -- he effectively said so -- and will not step out of line for any reason. Unfortunately, some gun nuts will. The Second Amendment is already under heavy fire in the Congress, in several states, and among the brainwashed, knee-jerking, uninformed idiot public.

My wife and I just completed our first of several full days of hands-on, intensive, hands-blistering, almost one-on-one handgun training from extremely qualified professional instructors, police officers who train everyone from Special Forces spooks to the LAPD to federal agency armed forces. One conclusion we reached was that anyone short of a highly trained law or combat professional cannot count on defeating an armed or even very capable (or drugged) unarmed assailant while limited to the 7-round magazines even policemen are now limited to in NY state. There are just too many variables not depicted in the movies that come into play in real life. Despite my military decoration for expert handgun marksmanship and these instructors' praise for my quick and accurate shooting, I came away damned sure that if I had to defend my home or my wife with anything less than 15 or 20 shots between reloads, one attacker could win and two might win, even if unarmed. Even senior cops' accuracy degrades very dramatically under fire, and don't forget the recent assailant who walked out to his car and drove away with five bullets in his torso, neck, and shoulders fired from arm's length. The .40 caliber pistols most police use (because .45s kick too much for fast accuracy) may well not stop a big, heavily dressed, determined, especially drugged, charging assailant just by firing a few rounds into his center of mass; he can go on for seconds or more unless his blood pressure drops below consciousness levels. That means even trained LEOs may well die as a direct result of that Cuomo idiot.

And that idiot Biden advises us to fire a double barreled shotgun into the air as our only means of home defense!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1918
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this talk about the 2nd amendment, and what it really means.
But there is something going on out there that I find curious.

For starters,
Vets recieving letters from the VA stating that they can't purchase firearms, humm?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/shock-report-veterans-receive-letters-from-va-prohibiting-ownership-or-purchase-of-firearms/

And this, ammo prices have more than doubled, humm?
http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/ammo-prices-have-doubled-december-americas-largest-gun-shop

And this, why are the Feds buying up so much ammo, humm?
http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/020813-643707-obama-homeland-security-vast-ammunition-purchases.htm

http://crisisboom.com/2012/03/23/feds-buying-up-all-surplus-ammo/

Nothing like this has happened before.
Just sayin'.
Are the Feds the real gun nuts?

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6032

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no doubt that isobars has a lifetime supply of high capacity magazines, to include an ammo cache that could withstand a small army. Given his keen interest in protection, to include all this recent weapons training, I can imagine him ever ready to tangle like a pro. I wonder if he has extra guns stored in his vehicles so he doesn't have to wear a jacket to conceal his piece to and from the car.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 71, 72, 73 ... 161, 162, 163  Next
Page 72 of 163

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group