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Gun Nuts
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5438

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl,

In your discussions with isobars here, I have to say your responses have been pragmatic and sensible, and I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. Yet, up to now, isobars doesn't seem to agree.

Where do you think he will go with this difference of opinion? Can isobars back off now? The suspense is killing me.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2203

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
But that is because there is a big difference between a soldier and a civilian bomber/gunman.....

Maybe in our minds, from our perspective. Perhaps both see themselves as soldiers, fighting for the right cause.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13281

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
Mike you really don't live in the real world. Let me see, somebody with about 29 years DEALING with the stuff (2 years working jails talking and watching criminals, 7 years working in courts and observing trials from traffic to felony some even made national news, and then 19+ years in patrol) and you have zero. Yet somehow you think you know everything, unbelievable.

The thought that you can do "any action" (your words not mine) is crazy. NOWHERE in any legal book is that written. However the word REASONABLE is written there and just about everywhere. But not your idea of reasonable, but what "a reasonable man" would do. And as you might get from the fact that nobody here agrees with you, it is safe to say you are not that reasonable person they are talking about.....

Oh yeah, and while California might be leading the law enforcement of the country, I guarantee the others are catching up. Same with the laws. It is getting harder and harder legally to take a life.

More states every year are shifting to Shall Carry, concealed carry, and the Castle Doctrine, all of which dispute your claims. My comments -- most especially those regarding the use of lethal force ... i.e., "anything" -- are derived from statements from LEOs with experience comparable to yours, from LEOs and lawyers who train county and state (plus federal and military in some cases) LEOs, from extensive training literature written by internationally recognized experts, from the copy of the WA state firearm laws issued to me with my CC permit, and from additional research into the broader WA firearm codes. STILL, I am posting my opinions to elicit reality checks, not stating legal opinion or facts or claiming I know these things as facts. i.e., I seek clarification, proof and/or support of claims contrary to mine, not unsupported claims and finger-pointing contrary to all the literature and professional expertise I can find.

I hate to break it to you, but virtually no one regards CA as "leading" the nation in any policies I can think of. Many, maybe most, other states' laws, especially regarding individual rights, taxes, unearned entitlements, many Constitutional amendments, etc., are rapidly diverging from CA's.

I'll never forget the following CA incident. When a citizen's front door was kicked in, he grabbed his grandchild and retreated to his bedroom. When his locked bedroom door was kicked in by the gun-armed intruder, the homeowner attacked the gunman with his bare hands to defend his grandchild. In the ensuing fight the gunman was killed by his own gun. The homeowner went to prison because he didn't dive out his bedroom window and abandon his house and grandchild to the drunken would-be killer.

On what planet is that sane or just? LEADing the nation? Not exactly; CA's legislative insanity is a dominant reason so many states are migrating towards the Castle Doctrine and so many Californians are running from the state ... some taking many millions in tax revenues with them.

'Nuther, equally incredible, example was that Chippie who told me I couldn't park on a gravel turnout 30 feet off a local road to eat a GD sandwich because there was no sign authorizing me to park on a gravel turnout 30 feet off a local road to eat a GD sandwich.

Then there's the moonbat's high speed rail!

I truly can't comprehend what state, even CA, would prosecute anyone for taking ANY action to protect a family member with a gun deliberately pointed at them by a credible threat. I refuse to believe that's illegal ANYwhere until I hear it from an AG AND see the code myself.

CA excepted.

Sorry, but I do not consider anything CA does or decrees to be representative of any real world. And no offense, but I must base my decisions on the experts and expertise I listed above when they and the internet disagree.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2203

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

'Nuther, equally incredible, example was that Chippie who told me I couldn't park on a gravel turnout 30 feet off a local road to eat a GD sandwich because there was no sign authorizing me to park on a gravel turnout 30 feet off a local road to eat a GD sandwich.


So, you've had TWO sandwich encounters with authorities.
http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
johnl,

In your discussions with isobars here, I have to say your responses have been pragmatic and sensible, and I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. Yet, up to now, isobars doesn't seem to agree.

Where do you think he will go with this difference of opinion? Can isobars back off now? The suspense is killing me.


Well good thing you didn't have to wait too long, I see the answer has appeared.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I've often wondered why EVERYBODY here can't get along with you Isobars. Now I know. I'm actually not sure why you even waste your time here. You obviously know every answer to every problem and everybody else is wrong. It must annoy the heck out of you to write pages and pages of "facts" and have nobody believe them.

But since you know "so many LEO's", and know all the FACTS to all these cases, I don't see any point in discussing them with you since it is a waste of time.

However I do find it VERY frightening that the state of WA actually issued you a carry permit since you have no real legal idea of what your rights are if you actually use it. I know you think you do, but like so many other things, you are wrong. Of course this assumes this is actually true and not just more made up BS.

Best of luck to you and get as much windsurfing time in as you can cause if you ever use the gun in one of your scenarios, your "lifestyle" is going to experience a very extreme change.....
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
johnl wrote:
But that is because there is a big difference between a soldier and a civilian bomber/gunman.....

Maybe in our minds, from our perspective. Perhaps both see themselves as soldiers, fighting for the right cause.


I was actually talking in a more "global" and "moral" sense. Yes I'm sure in the mind of the "xxx" (fill in your own name here) they all believe they are doing right....
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
isobars wrote:

'Nuther, equally incredible, example was that Chippie who told me I couldn't park on a gravel turnout 30 feet off a local road to eat a GD sandwich because there was no sign authorizing me to park on a gravel turnout 30 feet off a local road to eat a GD sandwich.


So, you've had TWO sandwich encounters with authorities.
http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Actually I'm surprised it ended that well. I find it incredible that one person can actually have as many bad experiences with just about everything in one lifetime. If that was me, I would just stay in my house and watch TV.....
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2203

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:

I was actually talking in a more "global" and "moral" sense. Yes I'm sure in the mind of the "xxx" (fill in your own name here) they all believe they are doing right....
Of course. I'm an expert at overstating the obvious.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only response to Isobars with any empathy is profound pity. Here is a man who in his sixties is bitter and resentful and angry about just about everything. He goes out of his way to insult people on the forum, and seems surprised that people end up disliking him. Think how sad his little world must be.
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