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Gun Nuts
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5472

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB--I don't know that my neighborhood is so safe; I've broken up two muggings on my corner. But I'm big and loud, and running out shouting obscenities and threats with a club has always stopped the perps. One time we caught them--and it was the same cop who answered the 911 call both times. The cops are kind of happy I'm so crazy; that kind of word gets around.

So I know a bit about violent crime, and the value of communities, and being an urban pioneer in rough neighborhoods. I've been threatened by far scarier people than Mike Fick, where I really was afraid for my safety. But I remember what my dad taught me when I was young, and I have come to appreciate even more as I've seen violence too close, is that a gun usually ups the violence ante rather than prevents violence. The cartoon someone posted showed the 6 people around Reagan who had guns--when he was shot. Columbine had an armed guard, Virginia Tech had its own police force. The NRA is interested in fear, not facts. If people realized how dangerous guns in the house were, their manufacturers would sell fewer, not more.

I'm also acutely aware that attitudes towards guns, and the threat of guns, are very different between gritty urban settings and rural settings. In many rural areas, guns are part of the tool box. In the City they are bought, stolen, and reused to commit crimes of violence, usually having to do with the drug economy. In the cities it is usually the young that die.

In the wake of Sandy Hook I do think that the consensus in the middle has agreed 1) that we must work with the Second Amendment rather than seek a broader ban; and 2) it should be at least as complicated to buy a gun as it is to adopt a kitten (I heard this from one of the parents of the Connectict children.) Reading Kathleen Parker today http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2013/01/guns_without_roses_kathleen_pa.html I realize that there are credible conservatives that are joining their voices to the choir that says we must do something about the easy availability of guns. I think it will happen, in Congress, and I think it will be bipartisan.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac...I guess I misread your background. I apologize.

I received so much grief from my commuting liberal associates, regarding my feelings on firearms, when I lived in the city, that I am a bit sensitive.

I grew up in rural state where, as children, we learned to use guns as "tools". I bought my first rifle, using paper route money, when I was twelve. I remember in high school, a number of students would do the gun cleaning demonstration speech in English class...carrying the rifle around the school all day. We thought nothing of it. The idea that the student might also be carrying ammo, or heaven forbid, a loaded rifle, was unthinkable. I am afraid that the respect that is learned for guns, at a young age, is something that is missing from many gun owners. Very dangerous.

So, we are probably to the point that some form of national gun control is necessary. What will be interesting to see is what the Obama Administration proposals include.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5472

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if they include...?

I don't think Obama is the primary action on this one. I could be wrong, but the no-drama Obama is not the man we need. And the right was talking about him taking away guns as soon as he was elected, so I think he is too polarizing to carry the day on this. On the other hand, Biden and a number of gun-carrying Democrats are repulsed, and Obama seems to have caught on to the value of using Biden, particularly where Reid is a disaster. But I think the action belongs to responsible, gun-owning conservatives and Republicans that know that the ready availability of guns, and the demand for drugs in this country, are creating huge social problems.

You might read Jackie Speier; I have met her. She is the real deal, shot at Jonestown. She knows. My mother-in-law died of a violent crime. I have some idea. http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/No-excuses-for-inaction-on-gun-violence-4193737.php
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant to write "What will be interesting to see is what the Obama Administration proposals include.

I read the article you posted. I agree with her. I have attended a gun show with a gun collector friend and was amazed at how easily one could purchase guns and ammo. This needs to be fixed. Magazine capacity should also be addressed as suggested. I am still trying to find a fellow gun owner, that I know, who is against a well written assault weapons ban.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3700
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do we do about all the guns already out there?
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1193
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
What do we do about all the guns already out there?


I'll weigh in on that one. Nothing Smile However I do agree ALL weapons should be registered to ONE person. When that person passes, his/her guns don't pass on to the family (antique type collector weapons excempted) without passing registration requirements. This way the weapons are then either sold to somebody who passes all the registration steps, or collected and either donated to police departments (if they need them) or destroyed. Then each person has to buy their own gun and pass the tests.

But as to the gun problem, it's not a gun problem it's a people problem. People of all ages die from unnatural deaths all the time. Gun violence is a small part of that. Yet we allow the other things.

Oh yeah, I possess an AR-15 assault rifle (semi-auto, not full auto) and a High capacity handgun. I also have been playing violent gun type video games for over 20 years and tend to watch violent movies. Yet to this day it has NEVER entered my mind to harm somebody with them (outside of the time I was a LEO) because it is simply wrong to do so. Then again, I was brought up properly (also in a family around guns since I shot small bore competition in Junior and High School)...

So IMHO guns are not the problem, they are a tool. The people misusing the tool are the problem. And if you think passing another law (or several) will stop the criminals from processing them, then you really aren't living in this world and you should come visit us some time....
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5472

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to johnl--much to agree with in what you said, particularly the first paragraph. But this can't pass without comment:

Quote:
But as to the gun problem, it's not a gun problem it's a people problem. People of all ages die from unnatural deaths all the time. Gun violence is a small part of that. Yet we allow the other things.


Without being more specific, I have to disagree. Gun deaths add up to 30,000 a year, more suicide than murder. That is an astonishing number. Car accidents kill about 40,000 a year--but that has been decreasing every year, despite more cars and miles driven, because of safety regulations. This I know, I survived a car crash that killed two because of safety regulations.

Drug overdoses kill about 20,000 a year--mostly from legal drugs--but we are also trying to reduce that number.

So while people are the underlying problem, the sheer number of undocumented--unregistered--guns flying around out there makes the cost of a gun in an urban market very low. And that availability can transform murderous rage into mass murder.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnl...It sounds like you ARE suggesting another law...that would require gun registration for all. Something, to which, I agree.

I forgot to point out earlier that my experience at a gun show was circa 1995. Since then, Colorado has closed the "gun show loophole". This in a pro-gun state.

New York has just passed stiff gun control measures. Can gun control not be a state's issue? Why should Utah need to meet New York's or California's gun laws?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:

Without being more specific, I have to disagree. Gun deaths add up to 30,000 a year, more suicide than murder. That is an astonishing number..


And yet, the total suicide rate in the US is less than Japan, Sweden and France and similar to Canada, Norway and Denmark. Guns, LIKELY, are responsible for increased successful suicide rates for young males. But, suicidal folks in other categories find other methods as necessary.

Causes of suicide are very complicated. My wife reminded me of a study in the '90's that linked suicide to listening to country music.

Wow...found it...gotta love google

http://comp.uark.edu/~ches/CountryMusic_Suicide.pdf
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5472

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny! Correlation and cause. It probably is a numbness from too many major chords and too little harmony. I prescribe Jazz, or Rite of Spring, as a cure.
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