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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 6133

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
vientomas wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
The US ranks twelfth in the world in mass killings per capita....


Your point is?


It's not a US phenomenon like the left would like Americans to believe..

For a large civilized country, having 40,000 people die every year due to gun violence is a big problem, whether you're a conservative or a liberal, you should be alarmed, and want better.... Only Brazil has more firearm deaths than the US.



And 90% of that is young black men shooting each other....true or false?????


But no one seems to care about them......true or false???????
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12639
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the common misunderstandings of people who aren't good with numbers is to lump very different phenomena together. Any legitimate analytical effort teases out different populations and treats them differently statistically. That can and should be done with gun violence, and we should not lose sight of the fact that we can make progress, and should not let perfect be the enemy of good.

The population of incidents associated with the drug trade are very different than the population of incidents associated with accidents, domestic violence, and terrorism. We should call political attacks, whether by those with a leftist ideology or those with a right wing ideology acts of terrorism.

Unfortunately, Republicans in Congress under the sway of the NRA and gun nuts have forbidden collection of systematic data on the number and causes of gun violence. With 40,000 deaths a year, and a long term record, there is plenty of potential data that could be analyzed to ascertain causes. Without a government sponsored effort that has credibility, we are left with analyses from organizations like the NRA and the SPLC that have axes to grind and look at the data with a particular bias. Since the left doesn't trust right-wing sources, and the right doesn't trust left-wing sources, we shout at each other without listening.

Local newspapers do print analyses of killings in Oakland and in surrounding cities. I also hear the stories of the more amazing assaults from my son-in-law, including dealers surviving shooting and going back to the street. In Oakland in 2018 there were 68 murders--the lowest level since 1999. (Contrary to claims by Trump, crime and particularly violent crime has been falling for decades, and is lower in cities with high numbers of immigrants.) Most of the violence that my son-on-law sees as an Oakland cop is associated with the drug trade--competition for turf, pay-back for rip-offs, armed robberies (even now of legal grows), and revenge. Berkeley's murders are much rarer, and most seem to be associated with gangs and drugs. Richmond was able to decrease the rate of murder dramatically with a number of measures including community policing.

I would imagine that the same sad story is true in most urban cities with a large group of poor people that see little hope for economic advancement outside of selling drugs.


https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/246404.pdf
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7249
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
vientomas wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
The US ranks twelfth in the world in mass killings per capita....


Your point is?


It's not a US phenomenon like the left would like Americans to believe..

For a large civilized country, having 40,000 people die every year due to gun violence is a big problem, whether you're a conservative or a liberal, you should be alarmed, and want better.... Only Brazil has more firearm deaths than the US.



And 90% of that is young black men shooting each other....true or false?????


But no one seems to care about them......true or false???????


Bring me a citation, I don't know. Looks like 55% of the shooting victims in the US are African American...so you're only off by 35 Handles or almost an entire standard deviation... Thats assuming the shooters were all African AMerican and young.

False on part two.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5775
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

59 people shot in Chicago this last weekend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, crickets.
Chicago doesn't count due to political reasons.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7249
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
59 people shot in Chicago this last weekend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, crickets.
Chicago doesn't count due to political reasons.

Crickets? I've read about a dozen articles about it. Maybe Chicago could learn from NYC which has a fraction of the gun violence....
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 6133

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
One of the common misunderstandings of people who aren't good with numbers is to lump very different phenomena together. Any legitimate analytical effort teases out different populations and treats them differently statistically. That can and should be done with gun violence, and we should not lose sight of the fact that we can make progress, and should not let perfect be the enemy of good.

The population of incidents associated with the drug trade are very different than the population of incidents associated with accidents, domestic violence, and terrorism. We should call political attacks, whether by those with a leftist ideology or those with a right wing ideology acts of terrorism.

Unfortunately, Republicans in Congress under the sway of the NRA and gun nuts have forbidden collection of systematic data on the number and causes of gun violence. With 40,000 deaths a year, and a long term record, there is plenty of potential data that could be analyzed to ascertain causes. Without a government sponsored effort that has credibility, we are left with analyses from organizations like the NRA and the SPLC that have axes to grind and look at the data with a particular bias. Since the left doesn't trust right-wing sources, and the right doesn't trust left-wing sources, we shout at each other without listening.

Local newspapers do print analyses of killings in Oakland and in surrounding cities. I also hear the stories of the more amazing assaults from my son-in-law, including dealers surviving shooting and going back to the street. In Oakland in 2018 there were 68 murders--the lowest level since 1999. (Contrary to claims by Trump, crime and particularly violent crime has been falling for decades, and is lower in cities with high numbers of immigrants.) Most of the violence that my son-on-law sees as an Oakland cop is associated with the drug trade--competition for turf, pay-back for rip-offs, armed robberies (even now of legal grows), and revenge. Berkeley's murders are much rarer, and most seem to be associated with gangs and drugs. Richmond was able to decrease the rate of murder dramatically with a number of measures including community policing.

I would imagine that the same sad story is true in most urban cities with a large group of poor people that see little hope for economic advancement outside of selling drugs.


https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/246404.pdf



Bull shit on crime numbers going down....more like reported crime numbers going down. No city in America wants to be labeled a crime hotspot, so they fudge and play with numbers all the time.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 6133

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
nw30 wrote:
59 people shot in Chicago this last weekend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, crickets.
Chicago doesn't count due to political reasons.

Crickets? I've read about a dozen articles about it. Maybe Chicago could learn from NYC which has a fraction of the gun violence....



Was it headline news on any major network??????????? no it wasn't!!!!!!!!

The left would rather spend the night on useless news like the Cummings school yard name calling nonsense.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5775
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
nw30 wrote:
59 people shot in Chicago this last weekend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, crickets.
Chicago doesn't count due to political reasons.

Crickets? I've read about a dozen articles about it. Maybe Chicago could learn from NYC which has a fraction of the gun violence....
You read deeper into the pages, but it's old repetitive news to most who no longer have any interest in it. But it is the perfect place for Obama's library, who was NOT responsible for all the mass shootings during his administration.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7249
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
nw30 wrote:
59 people shot in Chicago this last weekend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, crickets.
Chicago doesn't count due to political reasons.

Crickets? I've read about a dozen articles about it. Maybe Chicago could learn from NYC which has a fraction of the gun violence....



Was it headline news on any major network??????????? no it wasn't!!!!!!!!

The left would rather spend the night on useless news like the Cummings school yard name calling nonsense.

Yes, it was on line..where most get their news. Whats the "Cummings" school yard name calling? I love your obsession with the media, its amusing at best, but mostly pathetic. Allows you and others to divert from the actual problems in this country...
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 767

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
nw30 wrote:
59 people shot in Chicago this last weekend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, crickets.
Chicago doesn't count due to political reasons.

Crickets? I've read about a dozen articles about it. Maybe Chicago could learn from NYC which has a fraction of the gun violence....



Was it headline news on any major network??????????? no it wasn't!!!!!!!!

The left would rather spend the night on useless news like the Cummings school yard name calling nonsense.

Yes, it was on line..where most get their news. Whats the "Cummings" school yard name calling? I love your obsession with the media, its amusing at best, but mostly pathetic. Allows you and others to divert from the actual problems in this country...


Bread and circuses.
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