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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9300
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| wsurfer wrote: | | coboardhead wrote: | | MalibuGuru wrote: | | wsurfer wrote: | #msdstrong
Ban assault weapons. Period!!!
At least the generation of kids who have to shelter in place are making change.
Lots of marches and protests today. 17 Mile walk, one mile for every life lost. |
All modern weapons are assault weapons. All weapons are for military purposes. A 6 shooter fires as fast as as semi automatic gun. A punk will just carry 6 or 8 handguns during the next massacre, unless we have CCW. |
WHAT! A six shooter? You are honestly going to tell me that a kid could walk into a school with a back pack full of .357's and do as much damage as a semi automatic rifle with a high capacity clip? Good grief Malibu.
I used to shoot with a professional western shooter. Yep, he was impressive in what he could do with single shot revolver. But, the chances of a kid having those skills is pretty low.
According to you, maybe we don't need automatics for soldiers. Maybe each infantry soldier should wear a holster with 7 colt single shot revolvers.
I have a .22 with a high capacity clip. I use it to rapidly shoot floating sticks off the water and keep them bouncing across the pond (safe backdrop private land fwiw). Sorta fun. I also have a target bolt action .22. I can hit the stick once with that.
My friend has an AR15. We shoot rows of plastic pop bottles filled with water. A demonstration of that should scare the sh#t out of anyone who dismisses the danger of these weapons. And, yes, I do the same with my .357 and the effect is a fraction of the AR15.
Ban these guns except by special license. |
I get it.
Golf takes precision. Pool takes precision, shooting takes precision, riding waves and carving jibes takes precision.
We get a certain sense of accomplishment when we can do these things well.
I'm glad you exercise restraint and safety when you do your gun thing, I get it.
BUT, UNREGULATED sales of firearms (I know in some places it is well regulated) makes for some bad things happening.
A well regulated militia is what the 2nd amendment is about, not being a "let me do what I want with firearms" as the NRA supports.
If you are firing at targets to "scare the shit" out of people, then maybe you have a problem. |
357 vs AR15 indoors? No question that the 357s would be more effective. Even the military draw pistols indoors. It is very unwieldy to swing the AR15 around indoors.
Add an auto loader and voila. |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9300
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: |
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3 million home invasions occur each year.
One or more homeowners are home in 25% of these incidents.
In 2013, the Obama administration ordered the CDC to study gun violence. They reported that law abiding gun owners stop anywhere from 500,000 to 3 millions crimes per year.
Enough said. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| MalibuGuru wrote: | | wsurfer wrote: | | coboardhead wrote: | | MalibuGuru wrote: | | wsurfer wrote: | #msdstrong
Ban assault weapons. Period!!!
At least the generation of kids who have to shelter in place are making change.
Lots of marches and protests today. 17 Mile walk, one mile for every life lost. |
All modern weapons are assault weapons. All weapons are for military purposes. A 6 shooter fires as fast as as semi automatic gun. A punk will just carry 6 or 8 handguns during the next massacre, unless we have CCW. |
WHAT! A six shooter? You are honestly going to tell me that a kid could walk into a school with a back pack full of .357's and do as much damage as a semi automatic rifle with a high capacity clip? Good grief Malibu.
I used to shoot with a professional western shooter. Yep, he was impressive in what he could do with single shot revolver. But, the chances of a kid having those skills is pretty low.
According to you, maybe we don't need automatics for soldiers. Maybe each infantry soldier should wear a holster with 7 colt single shot revolvers.
I have a .22 with a high capacity clip. I use it to rapidly shoot floating sticks off the water and keep them bouncing across the pond (safe backdrop private land fwiw). Sorta fun. I also have a target bolt action .22. I can hit the stick once with that.
My friend has an AR15. We shoot rows of plastic pop bottles filled with water. A demonstration of that should scare the sh#t out of anyone who dismisses the danger of these weapons. And, yes, I do the same with my .357 and the effect is a fraction of the AR15.
Ban these guns except by special license. |
I get it.
Golf takes precision. Pool takes precision, shooting takes precision, riding waves and carving jibes takes precision.
We get a certain sense of accomplishment when we can do these things well.
I'm glad you exercise restraint and safety when you do your gun thing, I get it.
BUT, UNREGULATED sales of firearms (I know in some places it is well regulated) makes for some bad things happening.
A well regulated militia is what the 2nd amendment is about, not being a "let me do what I want with firearms" as the NRA supports.
If you are firing at targets to "scare the shit" out of people, then maybe you have a problem. |
357 vs AR15 indoors? No question that the 357s would be more effective. Even the military draw pistols indoors. It is very unwieldy to swing the AR15 around indoors.
Add an auto loader and voila. |
I doubt it was a problem for Omar Mateen....there are 49 families that would disagree with your expert firearms opinion. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: |
Even your lumping of liberals into a category like this is doing EXACTLY the same thing. Thanks for the example. |
My lumping is not based on any particular issue, or class, but a common ideology, so we will have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by nw30 on Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| MalibuGuru wrote: | 3 million home invasions occur each year.
One or more homeowners are home in 25% of these incidents.
In 2013, the Obama administration ordered the CDC to study gun violence. They reported that law abiding gun owners stop anywhere from 500,000 to 3 millions crimes per year.
Enough said. |
Still doesn't address why we need AR15's in our citizen arsenal. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14877
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | | mac wrote: | My granddaughter spent hours yesterday, under a desk and locked down in her high school classroom because of a threat to shoot up the school. Her texts to her mother are heartbreaking. Her father is a cop, who is in danger every day because of the proliferation of guns.
All of you assholes promoting gun ownership for resistance to the government or so a good guy can shoot a bad guy are responsible for this reign of terror. What I hope is that the rest of Americans can see through your cowardice and vote for politicians that will provide for a “well regulated” militia instead of politicians who made it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns. |
Mac
I am sorry for your grand daughter's experience. But, this accusation that anyone who owns a gun is responsible for the "reign of terror" will not move the needle in the direction of doing something about reducing gun violence.
You're a big strong man. A female family member of mine was threatened by a crazy guy (suspect in a murder where a woman was clubbed to death with a baseball bat). She took a self defense firearm safety class so she could carry a weapon and could protect herself.
Sadly, there are reasons, in this country, where private citizens have a legitimate reason to be armed. I strongly feel this is a constitutional right. We're not Canada, or Sweden or Australia. We are a crowded country with a violent streak. I wish this wasn't the case. But, guns did not make this guy who threatened her dangerous and he did not need a gun to kill.
This is not the same as suggesting that AR15 should be household items. Lumping all gun owners into this category is part of the reason why there is not progress on reasonable gun control. |
I am personally not against a female having a carry permit. I do not have the stats but that class of people do not seem to act as irresponsibly with weapons to date is my gut feeling (do not have the data). Should that change I would be for changing or updating to refine it.
as far as other than the state of the art "guns" as the amendment was written, any other weapon can be owned but must be kept at an armory. again anyone can carry an early 1800s state of the art black powder gun. with a reload cycle of was it 3 minutes. All others must be stored at an armory, the owner is like a gun club but the owner is legally responsible if any gun that leaves his armory location and not reported as a crime within a reasonable time.
_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
Last edited by real-human on Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing will be solved, or minds changed here, it just doesn't work that way.
So now for some options, some will agree, some will disagree, as expected. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | My granddaughter spent hours yesterday, under a desk and locked down in her high school classroom because of a threat to shoot up the school. Her texts to her mother are heartbreaking. Her father is a cop, who is in danger every day because of the proliferation of guns.
All of you assholes promoting gun ownership for resistance to the government or so a good guy can shoot a bad guy are responsible for this reign of terror. What I hope is that the rest of Americans can see through your cowardice and vote for politicians that will provide for a “well regulated” militia instead of politicians who made it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns. |
I guess reading as well as understanding facts are lost arts. The Supreme Court has said that gun ownership is an individual right rather than a right limited to the exercise of a State militia. While that was a radical departure from over a hundred years of law, it is now the law. But they made it clear that gun ownership could be subject to reasonable regulation. There is no right to a semi-automatic weapon, no matter how many wildlife refuges you want to take over. There is no right to gun ownership if you are mentally ill. There is no right to avoid background checks. I have at least woman friend who has owned a handgun for what she considered protection from threats. She has that right,even though I know she is more likely to be killed by that in either an accident or suicide than to successfully use it for protection. I wrote nothing that suggested she should not have that right.
Read my post with some attention before you try to put words in my mouth. What we are doing is insane, and I continue to hope that there is a strong backlash against cowardly politicians. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Mac
You wrote "so a good guy can kill a bad guy". This seemed pretty clear to me that it would include protecting oneself against the bad guy. It also seemed pretty clear to me that you were lumping that with "promoting gun ownership for resistance to government".
There is only one poster (Malibu) who has suggested, recently, that guns are a right to protect ourselves from the government. And, I am the only other poster who has, recently, written anything pro gun and I am not THAT pro gun. Yet you wrote "asshole(s).
Perhaps a note of clarification rather than chastising me for mis-interpreting your post would be more effective? (notice I didn't use "affective" or that could have been a real reason to get wound up). |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | Mac
You wrote "so a good guy can kill a bad guy". This seemed pretty clear to me that it would include protecting oneself against the bad guy. It also seemed pretty clear to me that you were lumping that with "promoting gun ownership for resistance to government".
There is only one poster (Malibu) who has suggested, recently, that guns are a right to protect ourselves from the government. And, I am the only other poster who has, recently, written anything pro gun and I am not THAT pro gun. Yet you wrote "asshole(s).
Perhaps a note of clarification rather than chastising me for mis-interpreting your post would be more effective? (notice I didn't use "affective" or that could have been a real reason to get wound up). |
Point well taken—and I could ask the same thing of you. I did not intend to lump you into the group of assholes; you have been clear that you don’t think military weapons should be in the hands of anyone. NP has likewise been clear in his distain for the US’s obsessions with guns as symbols of manhood instead of tools.
I have been clear, more than once, that I have to accept the Supreme Court’s decision that ownership is a personal right rather than one associated with a militia—no matter how radical a departure from established law that decision is. I’m well aware that allows hand guns without requiring trigger locks—that was the law that was challenged. I’ve never had a problem with hunting rifles that are not semi-automatic. I’m also well aware that most murders—and the vey common suicides—are committed with handguns. Indeed, the fathers of two close friends committed suicide because of depression—the most common result of our gun culture. So the court decision has guaranteed a certain level of carnage that can only be reduced by changes in our cowboy culture. But we need not let perfect be the enemy of all good things.
With all that said, the claim, most commonly by Malibu, that only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun was my target. My son-in-law is that good guy. I had thought I was specific that the targets of my outrage were 1) GOP efforts that had refused to extend background checks, 2). Gop efforts, signed by Trump, that made it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns; 3). refusal of the administration to actually do anything about bump stocks; and 4). GOP efforts to block any research or data collection on gun violence. None of these things are protected by the Second Amendment. I’m sorry you felt I was lumping you in, that was not my intent. |
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