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Gun Nuts
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 7353

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 634

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalibuGuru wrote:
Yep


But NRA members kill lots of people! Vast amounts each year, including themselves.
Get a clue!!!
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2958

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malibu

The government does not fund abortions. Planned Parenthood receives $528 million dollars doing the same work as any medical provider under the terms of Medicaid reimbursement.

So, your argument is what? We don't need stricter gun laws because we allow abortion? Or, are you just diverting attention from the fact that the GOP has resisted gun regulation...dozens of bills during Obama's terms.

Planned Parenthood provides pre-natal care to thousands of women. Pre-natal care has been shown to more than pay for itself in reduced health care costs. Planned Parenthood provides testing for STI's too and reduces the potential for spread of disease and, again, saves millions in health care costs.

According to the CBO, PP saves the Federal Government over $130 million per year above what the funding provided. How much money does the NRA SAVE the taxpayer?
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 7353

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama and Democrats had the ability to make changes, but decided against. Please don't fool yourself.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfer said:
Quote:
But NRA members kill lots of people! Vast amounts each year, including themselves.
Get a clue!!!

While there are no stats regarding crime by NRA members (membership lists are confidential), I would guess that the percentage of NRA members that have killed someone (if any), is far less than in the general population.

Just one opinion below:

Quote:
How Many Gun Crimes Committed By NRA Members?

Posted on 09/01/2016 by Stranger

someone came by searching for “how many gun crimes committed by nra members.”

That is not the same as ‘percentage of gun crimes committed by nra members, which I recently discussed, here.

“Gun crime” covers a lot of territory. For example, a hunter returns from a pre-dawn hunt, the wife and children will not be home for hours, so he lays his unloaded rifle on the kitchen table, puts the cartridges on the table next to the rifle, and goes off to change into his working clothes.

In so doing, in that jurisdiction, he has just committed three felonies, the first failing to render a firearm inoperable when not in use, the second failing to store the parts of the inoperable firearm in separate locked containers, and third for failing to securely store the ammunition. While NRA members probably commit quite a number of such crimes that are incidental to normal gun handling, there is no one to complain, so no count is kept.

On the other hand, there are the traditional “gun related,” or “gun facilitated crimes” of murder, rape, robbery, and assault, as well as property crimes to consider.

With NRA membership almost certainly topping the six million mark, it is a mathematical certainty that at least one NRA member has committed each of those crimes in any given year. But there those numbers are equally certain to be quite small.

A metropolitan area detective in gun country left a comment last year essentially saying he had worked more than 5,000 cases and had never seen an crime committed by an NRA member.

If we assume the absurd, that every American with a License to Carry is an NRA member, an examination of LTC’s “cancelled for cause” and six million NRA members would lead to the conclusion that 56 NRA members a year commit some crime sufficiently serious to cause LTC cancellation.

To put that into perspective, that amounts to a population more than twice as great as Chicago’s, committing just 56 serious crimes instead of 55,800 crimes.

Bottom line? While there are no official numbers, NRA members and the shooting community generally are among the most law abiding of Americans.
http://extranosalley.com/how-many-gun-crimes-committed-by-nra-members/
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2958

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalibuGuru wrote:
Obama and Democrats had the ability to make changes, but decided against. Please don't fool yourself.


Bard

You know the way government works. Or, you should. There was a ban on assault style weapons adopted under Clinton and rescinded under Bush. The only lasting legislation requires bi partisan effort.

Feinstein tried to reintroduce the ban and, even with a Senate majority, could not get the bill to advance. So, Obama used executive orders, which Trump reversed, across the board.

Yep. Support the NRA and then blame the Democrats when someone kills some kids? Or, divert the argument to abortion? Neither makes any sense to me.

What do you want Bard? Your party thwarts ANY effort at gun control and ANY effort to provide additional funding for mental health services and ANY increases in funding for schools to provide additional counselors. What's your plan?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 4702
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfer wrote:
MalibuGuru wrote:
Yep


But NRA members kill lots of people! Vast amounts each year, including themselves.
Get a clue!!!

You really shouldn't pull unproven shit out of your collection just to see if it would stick.
Get a clue!!!
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jpbassman



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3320
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfer wrote:
MalibuGuru wrote:
Yep


But NRA members kill lots of people! Vast amounts each year, including themselves.
Get a clue!!!


Bullshit. Of all the recent mass shootings which have occurred please identify the shooters who were active NRA members.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2958

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Lanza was not an NRA member although he did take classes from the NRA.

I used to argue that requiring firearm training would decrease the potential for firearm deaths. Maybe it would for accidents. But, not likely if a disturbed individual is looking to plan a mass shooting.

This, IMO, is why you can't look at trying to fix this issue by fixing one piece. Everything is tied into it. We need smarter gun laws, better enforcement and a commitment to providing mental health PREVENTATIVE services for young children. We are doing none of those things very well so far.

We will have this entire conversation again. Unfortunately.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead said:
Quote:
and a commitment to providing mental health PREVENTATIVE services for young children.


I think this is pretty complex. Let's assume mental health services are available for free for anyone under 18. If it's elective, it's the parent's responsibility to see that everything is done that can be done. If it's not elective, (treatment is mandated by some government agency). Then things get sticky if the parents don't support it. In both situations, how is the assessment made? Who's responsible for the assessment and for initiating the treatment?

The other unknown (for me) is: Who is not being treated because there is no funding or the care us unaffodable? Is there really a funding issue or is it just that there are few parents or agencies that are willing to force someone into treatment?

There is a lot more to this than just throwing money at it. This is where conservatives jump in. If money is appropriated for this, let's be sure that it's effectively spent.
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