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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Nazi-Poster-Coward wrote: | mat-ty wrote: | I have said many times I have very mixed feelings about guns. Never owned one and most likely never will. If I lived in a rural area I would own one for self defense of home and family.
I just find it comical that folks are blaming Trump. Obama was President for EIGHT years with larger majorities than Trump for part of that time. What did he change??????? VERY LITTLE. 8 years |
Why would you feel the need to own a gun in a rural setting? I've lived in rural locations and felt a lot safer than living in suburbia. I also live in Canada, where few people own guns, and the stats reflect that in our gun crime rates. I feel a hell of a lot safer living here just knowing that. I'll never understand the American mentality with regards to guns. |
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It can take 15 to 60 minutes in remote areas for law enforcement to reach a home. With that time frame it is only you that can defend your family. Personal choice, for me it would be a no brainer. |
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wsurfer
Joined: 17 Aug 2000 Posts: 1635
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: |
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mat-ty wrote: | Nazi-Poster-Coward wrote: | mat-ty wrote: | I have said many times I have very mixed feelings about guns. Never owned one and most likely never will. If I lived in a rural area I would own one for self defense of home and family.
I just find it comical that folks are blaming Trump. Obama was President for EIGHT years with larger majorities than Trump for part of that time. What did he change??????? VERY LITTLE. 8 years |
Why would you feel the need to own a gun in a rural setting? I've lived in rural locations and felt a lot safer than living in suburbia. I also live in Canada, where few people own guns, and the stats reflect that in our gun crime rates. I feel a hell of a lot safer living here just knowing that. I'll never understand the American mentality with regards to guns. |
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It can take 15 to 60 minutes in remote areas for law enforcement to reach a home. With that time frame it is only you that can defend your family. Personal choice, for me it would be a no brainer. |
Paranoia will destroy ya! |
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wsurfer
Joined: 17 Aug 2000 Posts: 1635
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:36 am Post subject: Again |
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Ok the 2nd amendment was put in place to protect us from foreign powers (such as the Brits early on).
A well regulated militia, a well regulated militia, a well regulated militia!!!
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
It's not about OUR government wanting to take your masculinity away, dick.
I don't think we need an avenue for every clueless person to purchase an AK or AR at the local Walmart.
Really I can't understand the argument but I see how the NRA spends millions to allow every day folk to get access to guns.
Next thing is Rocket Propelled Grenade launchers will be legal and available to every clueless fool.
God help us all |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:00 am Post subject: |
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wsurfer wrote: | mat-ty wrote: | Nazi-Poster-Coward wrote: | mat-ty wrote: | I have said many times I have very mixed feelings about guns. Never owned one and most likely never will. If I lived in a rural area I would own one for self defense of home and family.
I just find it comical that folks are blaming Trump. Obama was President for EIGHT years with larger majorities than Trump for part of that time. What did he change??????? VERY LITTLE. 8 years |
Why would you feel the need to own a gun in a rural setting? I've lived in rural locations and felt a lot safer than living in suburbia. I also live in Canada, where few people own guns, and the stats reflect that in our gun crime rates. I feel a hell of a lot safer living here just knowing that. I'll never understand the American mentality with regards to guns. |
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It can take 15 to 60 minutes in remote areas for law enforcement to reach a home. With that time frame it is only you that can defend your family. Personal choice, for me it would be a no brainer. |
Paranoia will destroy ya! |
Tell me the downside of having the option to defend yourself in a remote location????
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-cold-blood/ |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
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The anti gun folks will bo-hoo what is below, but if you go to the web site and look at the foot notes behind each "fact" and the sources, most seem to be reputable.
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/
Crime and Guns
Basic to the debates on gun control is the fact that most violent crime is committed by repeat offenders. Dealing with recidivism is key to solving violence.
71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records.
64% had been convicted of a crime.
Each had an average of 11 prior arrests. 1, 2
63% of victims had criminal histories and 73% of that group knew their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories). 3
74% of homicides during the commission of a felony involve guns. 4
Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus.
Myth: Criminals buy guns at gun stores and gun shows
Fact: One study 5of adult offenders living in Chicago or nearby determined that criminals obtain most of their guns through their social network and personal connections. Rarely is the proximate source either direct purchase from a gun store, or even theft. This agrees with other, broader studies of incarcerated felons.
Fact: Another city-wide study, 6 this one in Pittsburgh, showed that 80% of people illegally carrying guns were prohibited from possessing guns, and that a minimum of 30% of the guns were stolen.
Fact: Other common arrangements include sharing guns and holding guns for others. 7
Myth: Guns are not a good deterrent to crime
Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. 8 Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
Fact: Property crime rates are dropping (especially burglaries). The chart shows the legal handgun supply in America (mainly in civilian hands) relative to the property crime rate. 9
Fact: Every year 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. 10
Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot. 11
Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” 12 which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%. 13
Fact: Washington DC has essentially banned gun ownership since 1976 14 and has a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000. Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is less restricted. There, the murder rate is just 1.6 per 100,000, less than three percent of the Washington, DC rate. 15Fact: 26% of all retail businesses report keeping a gun on the premises for crime control. 16
Fact: In 1982, Kennesaw, GA passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate dropped 89% the following year. 17
Fact: A survey of felons revealed the following: 18
74% of felons agreed that, “One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime.”
57% of felons polled agreed, “Criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.”
Myth: Private guns are used to commit violent crimes
Fact: 90% of all violent crimes in the U.S. do not involve firearms of any type. 19
Fact: Even in crimes where the offender possessed a gun during the commission of the crime, 83% did not use or threaten to use the gun. 20
Fact: Fewer than 1% of firearms will ever be used in the commission of a crime. 21
Fact: Two-thirds of the people who die each year from gunfire are criminals being shot by other criminals. 22
Fact: Cincinnati’s review of their gang problem revealed that 74% of homicides were committed by less than 1% of the population. 23
Fact: 92% of gang murders are committed with guns. 24 Gangs are responsible for between 48% and 90% of all violent crimes. 25
Fact: Most gun crimes are gang related, and as such are big-city issues. In fact, if mayors in larger cities were more diligent about controlling gang warfare, state and nationwide gun violence rates would fall dramatically.
Myth: 40% of Americans have been or personally know a gun violence victim
Fact: This data was from an unpublished survey conducted by a political research organization. Their own footnote reads “Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research for the New Venture Fund (Aug. 2011). Note, this is not publicly available data.” 26
Myth: Interstate transportation of guns defeats local gun control
Fact: The BATF reports that the average age of a traced gun is 11 years 27, meaning that most guns moving from state to state were transported when legal owners moved.
Fact: Fewer than 5% of traced guns in California, many of which were not crime guns, came from neighboring Nevada and Arizona. 28
Myth: High-capacity, semi-automatics are preferred by criminals
Fact: The use of semi-automatic handguns in crimes is slightly lower than the ratio of semi-automatic handguns owned by private citizens. Any increase in style and capacity simply reflects the overall supply of the various types of firearms. 29
Myth: Banning “Saturday Night Specials” reduces crime
Fact: This was the conclusion of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy and Research – and it is wrong. They studied firearm homicide rates from Maryland after passage of a “Saturday Night Special” ban in 1998. It seems the firearm homicide rate has not subsided and remained between 68-94% higher than the national average through 2008. 30
From Answers.com
Quote: | Number of guns and gun owners in USA. Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun (that's about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million.
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The point is - guns aren't going away, maybe the assault type rifles and large capacity magazines will no longer be available, but what's out there will never be collected or confiscated. Just my guess. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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techno900 wrote: | The anti gun folks will bo-hoo what is below, but if you go to the web site and look at the foot notes behind each "fact" and the sources, most seem to be reputable.
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/
Crime and Guns
Basic to the debates on gun control is the fact that most violent crime is committed by repeat offenders. Dealing with recidivism is key to solving violence.
71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records.
64% had been convicted of a crime.
Each had an average of 11 prior arrests. 1, 2
63% of victims had criminal histories and 73% of that group knew their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories). 3
74% of homicides during the commission of a felony involve guns. 4
Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus.
Myth: Criminals buy guns at gun stores and gun shows
Fact: One study 5of adult offenders living in Chicago or nearby determined that criminals obtain most of their guns through their social network and personal connections. Rarely is the proximate source either direct purchase from a gun store, or even theft. This agrees with other, broader studies of incarcerated felons.
Fact: Another city-wide study, 6 this one in Pittsburgh, showed that 80% of people illegally carrying guns were prohibited from possessing guns, and that a minimum of 30% of the guns were stolen.
Fact: Other common arrangements include sharing guns and holding guns for others. 7
Myth: Guns are not a good deterrent to crime
Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. 8 Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
Fact: Property crime rates are dropping (especially burglaries). The chart shows the legal handgun supply in America (mainly in civilian hands) relative to the property crime rate. 9
Fact: Every year 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. 10
Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot. 11
Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” 12 which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%. 13
Fact: Washington DC has essentially banned gun ownership since 1976 14 and has a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000. Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is less restricted. There, the murder rate is just 1.6 per 100,000, less than three percent of the Washington, DC rate. 15Fact: 26% of all retail businesses report keeping a gun on the premises for crime control. 16
Fact: In 1982, Kennesaw, GA passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate dropped 89% the following year. 17
Fact: A survey of felons revealed the following: 18
74% of felons agreed that, “One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime.”
57% of felons polled agreed, “Criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.”
Myth: Private guns are used to commit violent crimes
Fact: 90% of all violent crimes in the U.S. do not involve firearms of any type. 19
Fact: Even in crimes where the offender possessed a gun during the commission of the crime, 83% did not use or threaten to use the gun. 20
Fact: Fewer than 1% of firearms will ever be used in the commission of a crime. 21
Fact: Two-thirds of the people who die each year from gunfire are criminals being shot by other criminals. 22
Fact: Cincinnati’s review of their gang problem revealed that 74% of homicides were committed by less than 1% of the population. 23
Fact: 92% of gang murders are committed with guns. 24 Gangs are responsible for between 48% and 90% of all violent crimes. 25
Fact: Most gun crimes are gang related, and as such are big-city issues. In fact, if mayors in larger cities were more diligent about controlling gang warfare, state and nationwide gun violence rates would fall dramatically.
Myth: 40% of Americans have been or personally know a gun violence victim
Fact: This data was from an unpublished survey conducted by a political research organization. Their own footnote reads “Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research for the New Venture Fund (Aug. 2011). Note, this is not publicly available data.” 26
Myth: Interstate transportation of guns defeats local gun control
Fact: The BATF reports that the average age of a traced gun is 11 years 27, meaning that most guns moving from state to state were transported when legal owners moved.
Fact: Fewer than 5% of traced guns in California, many of which were not crime guns, came from neighboring Nevada and Arizona. 28
Myth: High-capacity, semi-automatics are preferred by criminals
Fact: The use of semi-automatic handguns in crimes is slightly lower than the ratio of semi-automatic handguns owned by private citizens. Any increase in style and capacity simply reflects the overall supply of the various types of firearms. 29
Myth: Banning “Saturday Night Specials” reduces crime
Fact: This was the conclusion of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy and Research – and it is wrong. They studied firearm homicide rates from Maryland after passage of a “Saturday Night Special” ban in 1998. It seems the firearm homicide rate has not subsided and remained between 68-94% higher than the national average through 2008. 30
From Answers.com
Quote: | Number of guns and gun owners in USA. Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun (that's about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million.
|
The point is - guns aren't going away, maybe the assault type rifles and large capacity magazines will no longer be available, but what's out there will never be collected or confiscated. Just my guess. |
AKA.....thug on thug |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Lest we forget, with the talking points e-mailed to conservatives quickly posted here, the Russians funded the NRA efforts to help Trump. As payback, Trump signed a bill to make it easier for the mentally ill to get guns, and cut mental health funding. Sell those guns, who cares how much blood is on our hands. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011 Posts: 14877 Location: on earth
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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fact in Japan where hand guns and assult weapons are illegal no school shootings...... _________________ when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | Lest we forget, with the talking points e-mailed to conservatives quickly posted here, the Russians funded the NRA efforts to help Trump. As payback, Trump signed a bill to make it easier for the mentally ill to get guns, and cut mental health funding. Sell those guns, who cares how much blood is on our hands. |
Mac the more you talk about Russians the more foolish you sound. Why did Clapper, Brennar, Comey , Obama DO NOTHING? Until Hillary lost???
Mac leaves out the fact that many groups wanted Obamas last minute rule changed. Including the ACLU.
http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/trump-shooting-mental-illness/ |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | Lest we forget, with the talking points e-mailed to conservatives quickly posted here, the Russians funded the NRA efforts to help Trump. As payback, Trump signed a bill to make it easier for the mentally ill to get guns, and cut mental health funding. Sell those guns, who cares how much blood is on our hands. |
Not proven, only speculated, but that's good enough for you to believe it,,,,, as usual.
The mac and Dean "reality" show plays on.
Last edited by nw30 on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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