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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17736
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--you are only pretending to be reasonable. Your question has been asked and answered, very specifically, on this thread. The American public supports universal background checks and an end to the gun show loophole. http://www.salon.com/2013/01/31/no_really_americans_support_gun_control/
Most American's also support restrictions on assault weapons--which have been used to attack the police--without Obama being blamed. A close look reveals that measure is much more symbolic than effective because assault weapons are relatively rare compared to weapons that would remain legal.

The NRA has worked hard on push polling to reverse those numbers, with some success--but it depends on the way the question is asked.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14795
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
The left consistently rails against current gun laws. Fine, but what exactly do the lefties on this forum want to see happen if they could control congress and get their way?

Some of what the left is pushing for, I can agree with, but the stubbornness of the right is in my opinion, justifiable concern/paranoia regarding what could happen if the radical left got their way. Defining "their way" could mean a dozen different things, which I will not venture to predict.

So what do you want?


we left controlled the congress for about 40 years. You know when the USA use to be number one in all the major metrics. It is only the coming of the far right that has destroyed america.

I am in favor of mandating every home own at least one gun of the 1776 period. No other weapons allowed in a home.

But even machine guns, assault weapons, shoulder launch missiles can be owned but must be kept at an armory and never removed except in times of invasion of the British..

These armories would be private with legal liability and they would essentially be walled in gun ranges/clubs with one door with metal detectors that no weapon could leave.

If you can not hunt and kill game like they did at our countries founding you are not worthy, so go buy you food from a store then.

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mac, you clearly stated what you would like to see and I agree that background checks should extend to gun shows. The assault weapon issue is probably water under the bridge, unless there is a ban on manufacturing and selling. But we both know that they will be manufactured for military and police use, so even if there are laws that make them illegal, they will still get into the hands of good and bad guys. There is no way that all of those currently in the hands of the public would be turned in if they are banned.

This is where this issue crosses paths with bajadean's senseless idea. The government, both left and right know that there is absolutely no way that an enacted ban would cause everyone to turn in their guns. If it did happen, maybe half the owners would comply, but none of the bad guys would even consider that option. A by product of that type of unconstitutional move might be rebellion or some sort of massive protest. There too many guns out there to do anything about it. I think you realize this, but Baja doesn't deal with reality very often.

Magazine capacity is another option since assault weapons are no different than the many millions of rifles that are already out there with the exception of the number of bullets that they hold. The down side is that those that want the high capacity magazines will still find a way to get or make them. Only the good guys won't have them (police excepted).

My point in all of this is all the wasted hot air on a subject that will go almost no where from where we are now.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14795
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Many, probably most, lone-gunman multiple/mass shootings could have been stopped by one armed citizen with the slightest training and presence of mind. Even after a couple of victims had been shot, however, that heroic citizen would be dragged through years of civil court by the shooter's bereaved and in-denial family. Worse yet, if ANY minority group could claim any connection to the shooter from skin color to favorite food, that group would cry DISCRIMINATION and start busing in protesters. The minute offended victimhood rears its head, the facts of the case go out the window. Al Sharpton is a classic example of this, and he's getting help from every idiot with his "Hands Up".


you are a delusion with this logic, let me show you a few examples that are past your pay grade.

how did those armed policemen do in Nevada show by thet right wing loonie who was up with the gun bunch protecting that rancher who was breaking the law year after year Cliven. Did we see the right wing condem that loonies or loonies?

How did those armed officers in NY fare with another serial law breaker

Hey with your il logic why do banks get robbed when the crooks know the banks have armed guards? Seems these armed guards are never a match for the robbers. Very rare to hear of the robber getting killed at the bank by the armed guard. You just do not think through things do ya...

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
The assault weapon issue is probably water under the bridge

We can only hope so, as it's one of the finest home defense weapons for women on the market. With little to no recoil or (vertical) kick, it stays on target much better than handguns or shotguns in the hands of smaller people who don't fire their higher-recoil weapons every day. As long as she (or any lightweight) person stays aware of what's behind the walls behind her target, it is a safe (for the homeowner) weapon.

What else is she going to use ... a shotgun that slams her to the ground or jumps out of her hands? A pistol or revolver that hurts and kicks like crazy (it has to be at a least a .40 cal to stop an intruder with any reliability, and even that's marginal)? A frigging deer rifle that goes through two neighbors' houses?

Naaah. A pink AR-15 plus lots of appropriate practical and legal training. Why should she settle for anything less than what the bad guys have, especially a toy like a .38 that's just going to piss off a determined attacker?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17736
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--The water under the bridge is the piss that is scared out of politicians--dem and rep--by threats from the NRA. It is all about selling more guns--so we make it harder to get a driver's license than a gun, and keep rattling the cage that Obama wants to take their guns--so they buy more. In the meantime, contrary to Iso's fantasies about home protection for women, guns kill their owners. My Dad knew that 60 years ago.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that by the time a few mainland U.S. pizza parlors, ball games, schools, and malls are mowed down or blown up by ISIS or their wannabes, even the more intelligent lefties (the rest don't understand that the police and military can't be everywhere at once) will want guns. I PREDICT that the slump in gun sales will reverse at that point. Heck, maybe it will be ISIS and their deranged clones that prompt me some day to start carrying.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac said:
Quote:
It is all about selling more guns--so we make it harder to get a driver's license than a gun

And rightly so. I takes a lot more skill, focus and practice to be a safe driver. And even with the current laws, too many people get drivers licenses that should have stayed on the sidelines instead of killing or injuring other drivers.
Quote:
On average in 2012, 92 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day in 30,800 fatal crashes.


A gun is a tool that can be safely used with some instruction and practice. Much easier to use safely than driving a car. And yes, there are plenty of idiots that can't handle this particular tool safely, and it's the same for cars.

Maybe the focus should be on driver training instead of gun laws, if you want to save lives.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14795
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bajaDean wrote:
isobars wrote:
Many, probably most, lone-gunman multiple/mass shootings could have been stopped by one armed citizen with the slightest training and presence of mind. Even after a couple of victims had been shot, however, that heroic citizen would be dragged through years of civil court by the shooter's bereaved and in-denial family. Worse yet, if ANY minority group could claim any connection to the shooter from skin color to favorite food, that group would cry DISCRIMINATION and start busing in protesters. The minute offended victimhood rears its head, the facts of the case go out the window. Al Sharpton is a classic example of this, and he's getting help from every idiot with his "Hands Up".


you are in a delusion with this logic, let me show you a few examples that are past your pay grade.

how did those armed policemen do in Nevada shown by that right wing loonies who was up with the gun bunch protecting that rancher who was breaking the law year after year Cliven. Did we see the right wing condemn that loony or loonies?

How did those armed officers in NY fare with another serial law breaker

Hey with your il logic why do banks get robbed when the crooks know the banks have armed guards? Seems these armed guards are never a match for the robbers. Very rare to hear of the robber getting killed at the bank by the armed guard. You just do not think through things do ya...

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Maybe the focus should be on driver training instead of gun laws, if you want to save lives.

Far more lives than either of those would be saved by putting an end to smoking OR sleep deprivation OR prolonged sitting OR self-inflicted obesity (junk food) OR hospital errors OR inactivity, to name just a few habits that EACH kill us by the scores to hundreds of thousands each year in the U.S. alone. We could quibble over decimal points, but that doesn't change the bottom line: most deaths in the civilized world are caused to a great extent by bad, usually even stupid, habits.

What's most likely to replace that as the biggest killer? Many experts say it is an EMP or cyber attack that takes down the U.S. power grid. Why? Because it's so simple and millions of jihadis would love to see it. The Dept of Homeland Security reportedly claims that North Korea has the ability and hardware -- maybe even already in orbit -- to detonate an EMP over our heartland at will. As you know, the U.S. death toll from that has been estimated to be in the hundreds of millions. Simpler, more localized, suitcase-sized, non-explosive, highly effective, commercially available IEMI devices are malicious in nature and are used for terrorist or criminal purposes.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/dhs-study-north-korea-capable-of-emp-attack-on-u-s/

http://www.protectthegrid.net/
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