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Gun Nuts
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK then, compare gun related deaths between Toronto and Chicago. Two cities that are close in population, yet Toronto gun deaths for 2014 is 10 so far, Chicago is 129 to date with 732 shot / wounded with Toronto wounded is 20. So other than some demographic differences, what would you conclude the primary differences between these two cities would be?

Check out this website. I know it may seem like NRA porn on some levels, but some shocking statistics. http://heyjackass.com/

Also, when quoting scripture it is best consider the full context and intent thereof, or of the bible in it's entirety. I'm still trying to figure out if Caine's behavior condones "slewing one fourth of the world's population" or if there may have been an alternate message behind that example of "poor" human behavior.
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 474
Location: North Shore High School

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
It was not the gun lobby who recalled those politicians. You liberals think that just because the NRA puts money into a campaign that the "Sheeple" will follow blindly.

Guess what? PEOPLE DON'T LIKE LOSING THEIR RIGHTS! Regardless of how much money is spent.


Steven Baaaaard - So, you and all of the people who voted to recall the Colorado legislators objected to the passage of Patriot Act and sought to recall any Federal legislator who voted for it? Probably not.

Rights are rights, right? But, people don't like losing their rights, right? It seems people care more about their guns than their privacy. Baaaaa.

Guns are an emotional hot button issue just as is abortion. It invigorates the "base". The camps are divided and the argument is a distraction from other real problems faced by our country. While people and entities spend millions fighting over whether more than 15 bullets are enough for one magazine and whether a background check is appropriate before a gun can be purchased, people in our nation go without food and medical care. Baaaaa.

Give them bread and circuses. Baaaaa.
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frederick23



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 375

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My odds are wrong. I was referencing an old CDC report on violent gun crimes not deaths.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youwindsurf, I am a conservative libertarian. I was not for the patriot act. I do not believe the federal. Government should be involved in abortion. I wish we didn't have the NSA.

Most importantl, I do believe they are giving us bread and circuses.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3206

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We differ on the details but I and many of my friends are with Bard.
You guys get him confused with Iso and assign him opinions but he is in no way on Iso or Bushes team.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5687

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly Bard, I'm glad that the federal government protects a woman's right to choose whether they want to have a child. If left to the states, I have no doubt that women's freedoms would be sorely compromised. Even here in the US, religious forces are always working to curtail or stem basic freedoms.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Frankly Bard, I'm glad that the federal government protects a woman's right to choose whether they want to have a child. If left to the states, I have no doubt that women's freedoms would be sorely compromised. Even here in the US, religious forces are always working to curtail or stem basic freedoms.


Chandler, I'm not so sure it's religious forces alone. There are many people who just think babies are precious creatures who need to be nurtured. Religion aside, I was a pretty rabid party animal when I was younger, and didn't think about God at all. I was still pro life, and, I know many atheists who are pro life. I have a 28 y/o daughter because I was pro life and pro party at the same time. Laughing
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we are going to categorize people it should be noted that a large segment of the so called bible thumper "Christchuns" the left and the media so despise are not only pro life but anti death penalty as well.
There is a certain segment of hippies, new age people or what ever you want to call them that check those two boxes as well.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youwindsurf wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
youwindsurf wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
Youwindsurf

Your "quip" was directed at my comment. Therefore me. If you want efforts at gun control to have a chance legislatively, reducing my opinion to "quips" like this will not advance this agenda. Folks like me, in the middle on the issue, are the key.

No, I have not donated to gun control efforts financially...too many extreme positions in the opposition. What I did do, was buy, fix up, and live in an old house in a lower middle class (and mixed race) neighborhood when my wife was out of residency and I was out of grad school. I felt it was more effective to get my hands dirty than sit in a middle class, latte drinking, Prius commuting suburb. One cannot effect change by telling people what to do. One of the root causes of the violence in this country is the abandonment of our inner cities.

I did cancel my NRA membership about 10 years ago and told them why.
I did support the politicians that passed the gun control legislation in Colo. E-mailed their office.


Your membership to the NRA made you part of the problem. You will have to do a lot more than gentrify your neighborhood and email some legislators to atone for your past sins.

It must be a high horse you sit upon to look down on the middle class, latte drinking, Prius commuting suburbanites - those same "middle" people you claim will be the solution to the problem.

Sometimes it takes a ridiculous example to demonstrate how foolish a position can be. That is the purpose of my quip - to demonstrate how absolutely ridiculous it is to believe that any person should have the right to possess a gun anywhere at any time. Once you agree that this is a ridiculous position, then the discussion of reasonable restrictions can begin. Apparently, this was lost on you. If this offends you and/or the hard core 2nd Amendment folks, I don't care.

Guns for all, all for guns, all the time.


I do not really want to continue hashing out an issue where I have no idea what your point is. But, I think you missed my point. That is that when you...apparently, maybe not, I don't know...respond to my post, with what appears to be ridicule, by presenting an extreme position as my opinion, it is an all too familiar stereotypical liberal response. My "quip" about the latte drinking, big city suburbanites, is how many rural folks view "your kind"...true or not.

Mac hit the nail on the head. Guns and rural lifestyles, in the West, are integral. I learned to shoot at eight, got my first rifle at twelve, spent many weekends with buddies shooting. The NRA sponsored my first gun safety class which allowed me to go hunting with my family (yeah...my Mom was into decorative masculinity too back then...though,at 80, she can probably still kick some big city "gym-fit" weenie's ass). Many of us continued to support the NRA because of this history.

Defining that support as being "part of the problem" continues to reinforce my opinion that you may not really have an understanding of the rural culture around guns and gun rights.

If you want to start a discussion on gun control with folks with my history, you do not start with an extreme position to show now "ridiculous" an argument can be. You start with discussing who is being killed, and why, and work towards a solution to the problem...not direct blame.

Look...I support many gun control efforts. But, overzealous antigun liberals will derail that goal. Over-reaching on gun control in Colorado resulted in the recall of two of the more powerful Democrats. This may result in a Blue-Red switch in Colorado this fall. Hmmm...who really is part of the problem.


"Stereotypical liberal response"? "My kind"? "Rural culture"? Kind of presumptuous don't you think? I live in Idaho. I have a pretty good understanding of rural culture and conservatism.

Who is being killed? Anyone and everyone. Who is doing the killing? People with guns. There is no segment of the population that is immune from either category. What are the common denominators? People and guns. I am all for a discussion of the issues, but how does that information help to solve the problem? It does not.

As you know, Colrado passed two gun control laws: one imposing universal background checks on gun purchases and one limiting most ammunition magazines to 15 rounds. It is those laws which resulted in two recalls and one resignation of State legislators.

Now really, were these laws so draconian so as to warrant the recall of two legislators? No. So why were they recalled? Because the gun lobby worked the citizens into a frenzy and convinced them that the gub'ment was out to git thar guns and take away thar rights! As Forrest Gump said: "Stupid is as stupid does".

You may disagree with me, but I am of the opinion that you can't discuss the middle until you have found the edges and tip toeing around an issue seldom leads to a solution. If that makes me a problem in your eyes, so be it.

So, under the 2nd Amendment I should be able to possess an RPG? How 'bout a Thermo-nuclear missile? Them be arms, right?


Youwindsurf...we will have to agree to disagree on whether extreme positions are a way to effect any sort of change.

I have no idea where you live or what your background is with rural living. My making fun of the liberal position and directing at you was in direct response to questions posed such as your last sentence. Look, I have had plenty of discussions with liberals on gun control and that is a typical liberal response. Stereotyping is fun...but, not necessarily accurate.

BTW...Colorado passed 3 bills, but attempted 7. The two recalled legislators pushed the whole package hard even when asked by a popular Democrat Gov to back off. The shear number of bills was what excited the populace..."over reaching" and "over zealous". I felt, to me, like an attack on gun owners. Listening to the legislators, giddy with power, deride gun owners pissed off a lot of people. So, those measures may now be rescinded.

If you really believe that it does not matter to study why people are being killed with guns and focus on the guns themselves, as a solution, there is not much else I can say.

Of note...my deputy buddy called me tonight...murder in my hamlet of 500...first in decades...stabbing...wife did NOT have a gun...pity! I want to know why the bastard did this and work on ways to prevent it...not outlaw cutlery.

You wrote:

Quote:
Guns are an emotional hot button issue just as is abortion. It invigorates the "base". The camps are divided and the argument is a distraction from other real problems faced by our country. While people and entities spend millions fighting over whether more than 15 bullets are enough for one magazine and whether a background check is appropriate before a gun can be purchased, people in our nation go without food and medical care. Baaaaa.


To this, I totally agree. But, shouldn't the ousted legislators in Colorado have toned down their anti-gun rhetoric, swallowed their pride, and advanced this agenda instead?


Last edited by coboardhead on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A/C D/C didn't need guns.... Laughing

Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT
(Done dirt cheap)
Neck ties, contracts, high voltage
(Done dirt cheap)

Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap
Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap
Dirty deeds, do anything you want me to
Done dirt cheap
Dirty deeds, dirty deeds, dirty deeds,
Done dirt cheap, ahhhhh
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