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uwindsurf
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Fear. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| joew wrote: | | You are one scary neighbor for someone man!! |
I'm just reiterating what the courses teach.
I suppose you'd want to depend on Barry Obama to save yer butt. Good luck with that. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Frederick. Without going into details I can't disclose on a forum, someone close to me was threatened by a very dangerous person. The local police suggested that this person, and close friends and relatives, think about carrying a weapon. This was back when you could get a permit to carry issued only by the local police department. Not a permit on demand as it is now in Colorado. No training was, or is, required.
The police did suggest I take a class by an instructor they used. I took the course. Isobar's description is pretty close. We also spent a LOT of time learning to hadle the weapon safely and confidently. I have a long history of gun recreational use...target and hunting...this was completely different.
If one is threatened to the point they need to pull the weapon, they should use it with full intent. Something I know I am not capable of doing. So, after all the training, I put my gun back in the safe. But, I recognize how one could need the gun for protection in special circumstances. Carrying a gun, just "because" is not one of these circumstances, IMO. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| frederick23 wrote: | | Mr Gybe, Isn't the whole purpose of conceal carry to kill when threatened? Its not to take out for some leisurely target practice |
The discussion was about training for a concealed carry permit. Everyone with whom I have come into contact that has a concealed carry permit, took the training because they are responsible people and wanted to learn how to safely handle, maintain and store a dangerous weapon. I took the training at the NRA headquarters in Fairfax VA. I think they probably have an idea of the requirements for a multi-state concealed carry permit. In order to pass the program, the participant had to demonstrate an understanding of the components and operation of the weapon, how to handle and store the weapon safely, had to show a proficiency in short range shooting, and had to pass a written test. Nowhere in the training was there any discussion putting multiple rounds into an assailant to make them bleed more. Self defense courses are available but, unless the HQ of the NRA has it wrong, those lethal force techniques are not part of the requirements for concealed carry in most states as suggested in your original post.
This notion that gun owners are a bunch of deranged half-wits packing heat everywhere they go merely illustrates the ignorance of those who suggest that. The overwhelming majority of gun owners have weapons to shoot targets or to hunt. Their weapons are safely locked up when not in use. Some people own weapons for self defense. That is their right. The bad guys are not the ones who are taking concealed carry courses. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | I possess a multi-state concealed carry permit. The "shoot 'em up" lethal force you describe was not part of the training. |
My permits cover 40-some states. After safety and the decision whether to carry at all, my firearm training -- many classroom hours plus thousands of rounds at the firing range with the instructors I referenced at our elbows -- were about neutralizing the threat. And I'm not even through the optional courses yet. Even to the national champion* active duty SWAT cops (in formal competition including high-speed target shooting, running gun battles with many pop-up targets, nuclear weapons defense force competition, and police -- i.e., practical -- martial arts) who taught us, "neutralized" means "He's fallen and he can't get up" -- or even lift a hand to fire his weapon -- until the scene is fully controlled. That means dead or dying, not recovering and sure as hell not shot in the knee. This ain't the movies.
* These guys are so good that even our primary instructor's good looking, soft-spoken daughter, who's not old enough yet to drive, often wins junior regional and national obstacle course rapid fire competition.
Joew, I wish ALL my neighbors, and more people walking down the street and eating in restaurants, had the training and background checks my wife and I had. The world, or at least our part of it, would be MUCH safer. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| frederick23 wrote: | Guess what? Chicago murder rate was lowest since 1958 for 1st. quarter 2014. 1st. conceal carry permits issued March 1. From march 15 until today, murder rate has gone up 83% from last years stats. An all time record. My guess is the warm weather has something to do with it. Always seems that the nice weekends have the most stats. In 36 hours last weekend, 35 were shot. Conceal carry has nothing to do with it.
I would be MUCH safer walking down the most dangerous street in the city if I WASN"T carrying a gun than if I was. For sure. You know how they train for conceal carry? Do not just fire one shot. Put as many holes in the body as possible. The more holes in a body, the more blood will drain. They train for LETHAL FORCE in the course. Everyone should be like George Zimmerman. Nut heads. |
I'd be a bit more careful about lapping up supposed good news about one of the most violent cities in this country.
Chances are very good that the books were cooked to put Chicago into a better but fake light.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Truth About Chicago’s Crime Rates
The city’s drop in crime has been nothing short of miraculous. Here’s what’s behind the unbelievable numbers.
By David Bernstein and Noah Isackson
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/Chicago-crime-rates/ |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | | If one is threatened to the point they need to pull the weapon, they should use it with full intent. Something I know I am not capable of doing. So, after all the training, I put my gun back in the safe. But, I recognize how one could need the gun for protection in special circumstances. Carrying a gun, just "because" is not one of these circumstances, IMO. |
Same here, for now, locally, subject to change with circumstances. However, the dilemma is that we never know when we might need it, and if we need it but don't have it, then by this definition of "need" a family member dies. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | The discussion was about training for a concealed carry permit. Everyone with whom I have come into contact that has a concealed carry permit, took the training because they are responsible people and wanted to learn how to safely handle, maintain and store a dangerous weapon. ... to pass the program, the participant had to demonstrate an understanding of the components and operation of the weapon, how to handle and store the weapon safely, had to show a proficiency in short range shooting ... Nowhere in the training was there any discussion putting multiple rounds into an assailant to make them bleed more. |
Your training stopped far short of our minimum CCW training. The legal, moral, and personal choice factors of whether to carry were a huge and extremely vital part of our mandatory courses. The noisy, dirty, mechanical, expensive, practical fun part came later. The latter merely made sure we COULD shoot; the former did what it could to help us decide LONG IN ADVANCE whether TO shoot, or even to carry. I believe my teachers, who teach U.S. and foreign federal civilian and military agencies, would agree with my opinion that your coursework was seriously inadequate. |
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uwindsurf
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| NRA Catfight. Meeoowww. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| youwindsurf wrote: | | NRA Catfight. Meeoowww. |
Thank you for your intelligent contribution. |
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