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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2763

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:

If true, I'm sure Pueno will have a comment about "personal responsibility". Surely a business owner shouldn't be held liable because an employee didn't exercise personal responsibility, right?

But isn't it the business owner's responsibility to run a safe operation? After all, if the employee is hurt because of his unsafe and/or stupid behavior, then the business owner bears the burden and pays the price. Not fair to the businessman.

And if the employee flaunts the safety rules, then he's out the door in favor of someone who IS responsible.

Anyway, RR, the whole issue of "personal responsibility" belongs the right-leaning folks. You should by now realize that I'm left leaning... yet I still believe that we're each responsible for our own actions.

Anyway, in my opinion, it's Bush and Cheney's fault. Don't dicker with Dick -- he'll shoot you in the face.
.
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frederick23



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, you are completely paranoid and scary. I wouldn't drive on a federal bridge if I were you. Clinging to your guns and bible too much?

Better yet, buy a five gallon bucket of this from your favorite doomsday televangelist. http://jimbakkershow.com/lovegifts/food/bulk.html

Then, hunker down in your bunker with all your guns. Meanwhile I will be at a Cubs game.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1105

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not fair to the business owner....got that right! As a business owner, I feel like I have to crazy glue the safety devices to the employee for them to use it, and just smoking people is totally impractical too. Truly skilled people are hard to come by. Many of the safety regulations and enforcement are the making of great fairy tales.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1542

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno said:
Quote:
But isn't it the business owner's responsibility to run a safe operation? After all, if the employee is hurt because of his unsafe and/or stupid behavior, then the business owner bears the burden and pays the price. Not fair to the businessman.

Yes, you are correct. However, you fail to acknowledge the issue - unfair treatment of a business owner. OSHA rarely shows up at someone's door without being informed of safety concerns by an employee, or follow up after a significant, usually deadly accident. On a first time visit and a $20K fine for no seatbelt use on a forklift, something is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of line.

THAT'S the issue! Just part of the orchestrated harassment of conservative 501C3 non profits.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14605

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
a $20K fine for no seatbelt use on a forklift, something is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of line.

As is the eminent domain prosecution of the western rancher because inspectors found one loose staple in hundreds (thousands?) of miles of fencing on his 7,000-acre ranch. It took an employee a full day to ride out and hit the remote staple with a hammer.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6022

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I believe Ms. Engelbrecht's testimony is true and untwisted? No I can't say that I do. Her grandstanding is very questionable in my mind. Look a bit deeper, and I'm sure that a different story can be told.
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 733
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Do I believe Ms. Engelbrecht's testimony is true and untwisted? No I can't say that I do. Her grandstanding is very questionable in my mind. Look a bit deeper, and I'm sure that a different story can be told.


Read it here with a link to the OSHA docs:

http://host.madison.com/news/local/writers/steven_elbow/fact-checking-ron-johnson-victim-catherine-engelbrecht-s-osha-claims/article_3d237f86-9893-5b7b-be0b-55fb66dc0ce4.html

The citations, released Friday evening by the U.S. Department of Labor (and attached to this post as a PDF), show that the business was cited for obstructions in aisles, neglect in labeling non-exit doorways that could be mistaken for exits, failure to make sure the forklift operators wore seatbelts, not providing employees operating a metal grinder with protective eyewear, allowing an employee to operate a forklift without proper training and certification, failure to install guards on rotating grinders and band saws, failure to anchor a milling machine to the floor, creating an electrical hazard by plugging heavy machinery and other electrical devices into portable power strips instead of fixed wiring, and failure to label numerous hazardous chemicals.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2763

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Yes, you are correct. However, you fail to acknowledge the issue - unfair treatment of a business owner. OSHA rarely shows up at someone's door without being informed of safety concerns by an employee, or follow up after a significant, usually deadly accident. On a first time visit and a $20K fine for no seatbelt use on a forklift, something is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of line.

THAT'S the issue! Just part of the orchestrated harassment of conservative 501C3 non profits.

Mr. Fick-shun wrote:
As is the eminent domain prosecution of the western rancher because inspectors found one loose staple in hundreds (thousands?) of miles of fencing on his 7,000-acre ranch. It took an employee a full day to ride out and hit the remote staple with a hammer.

You guys are really funny, sitting in your corner crying and frothing. "Oh, poor me, poor me, Obama's out to get meeeeee!"

Laughing Laughing Laughing


youwindsurf wrote:
The citations, released Friday evening by the U.S. Department of Labor (and attached to this post as a PDF), show that the business was cited for obstructions in aisles, neglect in labeling non-exit doorways that could be mistaken for exits, failure to make sure the forklift operators wore seatbelts, not providing employees operating a metal grinder with protective eyewear, allowing an employee to operate a forklift without proper training and certification, failure to install guards on rotating grinders and band saws, failure to anchor a milling machine to the floor, creating an electrical hazard by plugging heavy machinery and other electrical devices into portable power strips instead of fixed wiring, and failure to label numerous hazardous chemicals.

Ah. We get to the REAL issue at hand, not the Fick-shun fiction.

The company apparently had NO safety program, no safety training, no safety equipment, no safety awareness. And the management couldn't care less.

OSHA should shut 'em down for the safety of employees and visitors.
.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1542

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's take the typical lefty approach -
Quote:
Founded in 1917, the Cap Times had for decades touted itself as "your progressive voice" in Madison, the left-leaning and politically active home to the gargantuan main campus of the University of Wisconsin. "The Cap Times was as much a cause as it was a newspaper," Fanlund says.


Why would anyone put any credibility to a story from a left wing rag? I wouldn't believe anything from a source like this.

Now you see how pathetic it is to take this approach.
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 733
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Let's take the typical lefty approach -
Quote:
Founded in 1917, the Cap Times had for decades touted itself as "your progressive voice" in Madison, the left-leaning and politically active home to the gargantuan main campus of the University of Wisconsin. "The Cap Times was as much a cause as it was a newspaper," Fanlund says.


Why would anyone put any credibility to a story from a left wing rag? I wouldn't believe anything from a source like this.

Now you see how pathetic it is to take this approach.


Did you even bother to read the article and click on the link to the OSHA website containing the actual documents evidencing the violations? Apparently not. This is a prime example of why the majority of our populace lacks the ability to engage in critical analysis and instead forms their opinions based on what the talking heads say.

Let's take the typical righty approach. Simply too lazy to take the time to read and digest the facts from the source. The article cited the source documents. You would rather attack the messenger than engage in a discourse on the facts. Talk about pathetic.
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