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Gun Nuts
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 736
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many anti-drug, anti-gay, "family values" R's have been drug addicts, gay and philanderers? Lots.

Let's be honest. There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around between both Parties. Trying to claim that one side is free of the same is a fool's errand.

The only thing most politicians care about is money and power and they will say and do whatever is necessary to maintain their status. Including lying.

But we as a populace get what we deserve - we vote them into office. Perhaps politicians are simply a reflection of their constituents. What a disappointing thought.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4344

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt the ledger would balance out pretty equally.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4344

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supporters of the Second Amendment all across the country ought to be celebrating as Chicago has enjoyed the lowest murder rate in over fifty years thanks to the Land of Lincoln’s begrudging acceptance of an individual’s right to self-defense.

Though Illinois has been remarkably slow to accept what gun owners around the country have long understood, Illinois became the fiftieth state to finally allow concealed carrying of a firearm.

On July 9ty, 2013, the bill allowing concealed carry was approved by both houses of Illinois’ congress after mounting pressure from gun rights groups and the Supreme Court.

The left offered their usual cries and warnings that the streets of Chicago would run red with the blood of the innocent, but in truth, it appears Chicago is enjoying the lowest murder rate since 1958 thanks to the underlying threat to criminals of an armed population.

The Washington Times reported:
The first three months of 2014 have seen the fewest number of homicides since 1958 — six fewer than this time in 2013, and 55 fewer than this time in 2012, The Chicago Sun-Times reported.

Gun-rights advocates argue that concealed carry laws can reduce crime and keep the population safer. The state began accepting applications for permits in January.

“The facts are every time guns have been allowed, concealed-carry has been allowed, the crime rate has gone down,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Texas Republican, just months before Illinois passed the concealed carry law in July 2013.
Of course, while Occam’s razor would suggest that the change in gun laws would be the obvious cause of the drop in murder rate in a city long known for rampant gun violence, gun control proponents are maintaining that the opposite is true, that gun control efforts are working.

Chicago Police Superintendant Garry McCarthy claimed that the drop in murders can be attributed to gun control efforts and the collecting of 1,300 firearms within the city and increased training for police officers.

However, it seems unlikely that after a half-century of trying the same ideas over and over again only to witness the murder rate rise that now, 9 months after enacting concealed carry laws, these same failed gun control laws are finally working.

The much simpler and obvious answer: criminals are less successful against an armed population.

Illinois may have been slow to embrace reality, but after decades of kicking and screaming, Chicago is enjoying less violence thanks to good guys with guns.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do I get the feeling that facts are being twisted to make a specious point?
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 736
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Supporters of the Second Amendment all across the country ought to be celebrating as Chicago has enjoyed the lowest murder rate in over fifty years thanks to the Land of Lincoln’s begrudging acceptance of an individual’s right to self-defense.

Though Illinois has been remarkably slow to accept what gun owners around the country have long understood, Illinois became the fiftieth state to finally allow concealed carrying of a firearm.

On July 9ty, 2013, the bill allowing concealed carry was approved by both houses of Illinois’ congress after mounting pressure from gun rights groups and the Supreme Court.

The left offered their usual cries and warnings that the streets of Chicago would run red with the blood of the innocent, but in truth, it appears Chicago is enjoying the lowest murder rate since 1958 thanks to the underlying threat to criminals of an armed population.

The Washington Times reported:
The first three months of 2014 have seen the fewest number of homicides since 1958 — six fewer than this time in 2013, and 55 fewer than this time in 2012, The Chicago Sun-Times reported.

Gun-rights advocates argue that concealed carry laws can reduce crime and keep the population safer. The state began accepting applications for permits in January.

“The facts are every time guns have been allowed, concealed-carry has been allowed, the crime rate has gone down,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Texas Republican, just months before Illinois passed the concealed carry law in July 2013.
Of course, while Occam’s razor would suggest that the change in gun laws would be the obvious cause of the drop in murder rate in a city long known for rampant gun violence, gun control proponents are maintaining that the opposite is true, that gun control efforts are working.

Chicago Police Superintendant Garry McCarthy claimed that the drop in murders can be attributed to gun control efforts and the collecting of 1,300 firearms within the city and increased training for police officers.

However, it seems unlikely that after a half-century of trying the same ideas over and over again only to witness the murder rate rise that now, 9 months after enacting concealed carry laws, these same failed gun control laws are finally working.

The much simpler and obvious answer: criminals are less successful against an armed population.

Illinois may have been slow to embrace reality, but after decades of kicking and screaming, Chicago is enjoying less violence thanks to good guys with guns.


This is cut and pasted from the TPNN (Tea Party News Network) http://www.tpnn.com/

The TPNN website states:

Neither we nor any third parties provide any warranty or guarantee as to the accuracy, timeliness, performance, completeness or suitability of the information and materials found or offered on this website for any particular purpose. You acknowledge that such information and materials may contain inaccuracies or errors and we expressly exclude liability for any such inaccuracies or errors to the fullest extent permitted by law.

TPNN was founded by Todd Cefaratti. His motives have been questioned: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/02/tea-party-group-behind-saturdays-gun-rallies-under-fire
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3539

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letting folks carry hidden guns in Ill seems to have also lowered the crime rate everywhere in the US including Maui.
It hasn't lowered the death rate from guns though. That goes up every time some idiot like my brother in law buys a gun.
The states with very generous gun laws have the most gun deaths.
Hawaii does not issue concealed permits though they could if they wished. There are none current. Accidental gun deaths are low here.
.
Alaska has the most gun deaths along with Louisiana and Montana. When careless folks have lots of guns they shoot people like Cheney.
The crime rate has been going down for almost twenty years with no visible connection to gun laws., but who knows.

The CenterforDisease Control says that you can reduce your chance of getting shot by50% if you refuse to keep a gun in your home so we do that lately.
I had a loaded gun in my house for forty years and we only had three accidents with guns in that time. One guy dropped his concealed in the driveway doing a bid. One gun went off showing to my nephew.
One guy shot through my roof while I was on the John. He was examining the rifle I kept over the door.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3539

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could have had an answer to the question of gun rights really saving folks but the NRA successfully lobbied to prevent such research by gov.agencies like the non partisan Center for Disease control.
The NRAdoesnt want the facts to be widely known and that speaks volumes.
Non fatal injuries from gunshot wounds are at their highest in 6years.
So are gun suicides.
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frederick23



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 516

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too soon to tell here in Chicago. The first 5000 conceal carry permits were mailed March 1. More likely the near record Winter cold and snow has kept the criminals inside. Up until a few weeks ago, you would be a fool to go outside. Blame the record warmth in the Arctic this Winter. It pushed all that crap down and over my house. Just got back from the other side of the lake and it's still Antarctica over there. This side is ice free as of a few weeks ago.

A few creeps have threatened to blow things up because they were denied conceal permits. The Chicago police commissioner doesn't attribute the slightly lower stat on the new law, just better police tactics. I blame the cold.

It is really weird seeing "no handgun" signs all over the place. All my life I never thought about things like that. Thought it's just common sense stuff you know? Who would want to bring a gun into a store, a public place or a school? Don't know how you qualify. You can't bring a handgun to the Cubs game, but you can bring one to the opera? I guess you never know, that opera crowd can be downright dangerous and unruly.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4344

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Who would want to bring a gun into a store or school". A nut of course, because it is illegal.

But after a valid background check, my 50 year old neighbors should be allowed to carry handguns. They should do mental health checks for concealed carry.

IMO, police are mostly crazy, yet somehow the dentist, lawyer, school teacher shouldn't be allowed to carry like a cop? There is strict training (at least in California) to obtain a CCP. After this training it should be a go.

I was recently at a hunters training course. I passed, but the CHP officer didn't. What does that tell you?
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frederick23



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 516

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It tells me no one is safe with guns around. If 175 million people didn't have guns, my odds of dying by one would go down from 1 in 340 to about 1 and a 100 million. I don't want anything to do with them.

Again, if a highly skilled, highly educated, highly trained, former Secretary of Defense and sitting Vice President of the United States can shoot his friend in the face, I am sure Bard, you can too. Even with your so called "training".
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