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Gun Nuts
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SB...Do you think the mass killings are politically motivated? What does the party affiliation have to do with some crazy guy killing people? They are nuts (your definition).

No one is questioning the morality of an individual member of the Tea Party or whether he is violently crazy or not. What I question is how these guy's obstruction of government process are advancing the cause of the little guy.

You know folks die when they cannot obtain timely health care. I wonder how many compared to the Democrat shooting sprees.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead said:
Quote:
You know folks die when they cannot obtain timely health care. I wonder how many compared to the Democrat shooting sprees.


Should it work out where almost everyone has health care insurance, it remains to be seen if folks will indeed go to the Dr. for preventative care. No doubt, more will go, but there are plenty that currently have health insurance that still avoid going to the Dr. until they are in deep trouble.

Even if the ACA works out well (very doubtful), it will not be a panacea of preventative medicine. You can't make a lazy, unhealthy population healthy by passing a law.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3525

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't easily "fix" any large system like weather and large health populations.
What we can do is start to steer the boat in the right direction.
Our current health system is going on the rocks.
Did I mention getting dehydrated going to the emergency room and leaving ten hours later with an assurance there was nothing wrong and a bill for $10K?
Broken healthcare system, the clerk explained.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Techno


One problem I have always had when folks compare the costs and results of medical care in the US vs other countries is that those comparisons do not take into account our less than stellar health.

I do not expect that many folks will utilize preventative care unless there is some financial incentive to do so. And, lifestyle choices that discourage health should cost more on insurance policies.

I do not think the ACA is perfect, as I have stated in the past. My plan "coboardcare" is much better. But, I am a realist too. We cannot even begin to get costs under control when cost shifting has been rampant. To do this we need the mandate for insurance, insurance company responsibility and insurance exchanges. The rest of the law needs tweaking.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4315

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB, there are more disgruntled people with their hands out than there are for hard working middle classers. Those who feel incapable or disenfranchised are the shooters usually. It doesn't take a genius to know that most shooters in the inner city are Obama voters.

Oh I know you are throwing your hands up and screaming, but this is most certainly true. Let's just say it's 70-30%. Tea partiers certainly own a lot of weapons, but I'm not hearing that any of them have shot up the place.

IMO, those disenfranchised folks in the inner city need to be forced to become productive. Free food, free housing, free Obama phone, and now free healthcare. (more or less) What do they have to live for? Nothing.

As for obstruction. That is their job if they feel we are going down the rabbit hole.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disgruntled because jobs are sent over seas partially because our healthcare costs are so high? Disgruntled because wages have been dropping relative to the cost of living for decades? Disgruntled because the middle class and industry has abandoned the inner cities? If they are disgruntled, I think these folks have a reason.

Look, I am all for workfare, inner city health clinics, turbo charging inner city education and programs to reduce teen pregnancy. I am willing to pay more taxes to accomplish this because it will cost more in the short term. I do not see anything coming out of your end of the political spectrum except "dude, grab ahold of your boot straps and pull and you can also be an upper middle class white guy."
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4315

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You and I are not too far off CB. I could go along with much of what you say. I think that what you are saying is the same as I. There are too many disenfranchised people. People with no hope or job.

This is not because of healthcare costs. Not a bit. I don't give any of my employees health care. I can't afford it, but they still love their jobs. Lack of jobs will come when the minimum wage is increased and employers are mandated to pay for healthcare. How could it be any other way?

The only solution is inflation. I could then afford to pay for their healthcare. But then again everyone's cost of living will soar. It will be as if we did nothing. The poor will be poorer because a loaf of bread will be $10, and the rich with assets will be richer on paper, but paying a lot more for stuff too.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question SB

If you do not provide health insurance and your employees make minimum wage how do they pay for their healthcare?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4315

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never paid minimum wage. They make a choice to buy it or not. I will be paying some minimum wage if forced to buy it though. That is the sad reality.

Why is it the employers responsibility to pay for health coverage. He might as well be required to buy auto insurance for them. I do gladly have workers comp for everyone, (except myself). Shouldn't my bankers pay for my workers comp, since I'm really working for them?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said it was your responsibility as an employer to furnish insurance. In fact, I believe part of the reason medical costs are so high is because the gilded plans many large employers provide encourages over utilization of services.

I did not provide health insurance either. I bought season ski passes and had a profit sharing plan and paid very high wages. Health insurance was a small percentage of my highly skilled worker net income.

This is not the same when you approach minimum wage. Medical costs average some $8000 per capita in this country. It has become out of reach for the working poor. So, they go without insurance and game the system or do not receive health care.
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