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Struggling Intermediate on the verge of giving up
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2439

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

like anything else, not all boards in any class are constructed the same. yes, long boards can be heavy, but not all.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1493

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgomez,

Mast / sail compatibility varies from brand to brand. However, a 460 mast will generally fit most 7.5 sails, but not most 8.0+. You will notice a big difference in power between a 5.5 and a 7.5. Between a 7.5 and 8.2, some power difference, but not too much. A jump of 2 meters is a big jump, but you should be OK. I would recommend a 7.5 for your next sail. Eventually, you will want a 6.5 and then maybe an 8.5 or 9.0. Next might be a 4.5. It can get crazy as your skills improve. More sails = more masts, booms & boards.
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 429
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgomez,

As the previous poster stated, if you want to go bigger than 7.5 you will likely need another mast, I do not know of any 8.0+ sails that will work on a 460 mast. The 8.2 will only allow you to plane in 1 kt. less wind if that. I am using an Ezzy Cheetah 7.5. Luff = 479-482 so you already have the right mast and extension. Boom = 206-214 so you may need another boom. Should you need the new boom, get one that will also fit a 9.5 sail, something around 200-250 cm.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1278
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like everybody says, if you go bigger than 7.5 you'll probably need
a longer mast (and a bigger boom). I have seen mast extenders for certain masts, which might make your 460 into a 490, but, I've never seen a sail rig properly on that type setup, and the extenders are almost
as expensive as another mast piece. If you want to go with an 8.2,
you'll probably be wanting a 490, but check the sail specs, there are
some pretty stubby 8+ meter sails out there (a Sailworks 8.0 Retro will
rig on a 460 with a 40 cm base exitension, and I think there's an 8.0
Hot sail that will rig similarly).

So how much is that extra "1 knot" of planing power worth to you?
It probably depends on the average wind speed at your
sailing venue. If it's more like 8 knots, you'll probably be cursing your
7.5, if it's more like 9 knots, you'll probably be pleased.
.7 meters does make a difference (as does boad shape. as does fin size).

-Craig

rgomez wrote:
Im currently using the neil pryde xperience 5.5 rig...The mast size is 460cms...not sure about the boom but the mast extension is 28cms....how high sail size will I be able to go without having to buy a new mast and boom....and will I be able to use mast extenders or increase the mast extension size?

Also will the be much difference in low-end power between a 7.5 and 8.2m sail?
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cost wise you will probably end up with a 7.5 that works with your mast as you can find that size used. Some brands do now make larger sails for 460 masts. Severne NCX 8.0 rigs on a 460 as does the my Naish Indy 8.2, but those are newer sail, more costly & harder to find. Both rig on about 208 cm booms.

Coachg
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgomez wrote:
Also will the be much difference in low-end power between a 7.5 and 8.2m sail?

Theoretically, and close enough on the water, an 8.2 has approximately 9.3333333333333% more power than a 7.5 at any given apparent wind speed. This if neither or both are planing, their power difference is about 10%. Big whoop! However, if the 8.2 is planing the 7.5 isn't (because the wind difference is juuuuuuuuuust in that gap despite pumping), their power difference can be >300%!

WHUZZAT YOU SAY? A given sail's power varies directly proportional with area, but directly to the square of its apparent speed. If it's blowing, say 8 kts and the 7.5 won't plane, its apparent wind is on the order of something like 10 kts. If in those same winds the 8.2 is planing, its apparent wind might approach 20 kts. 10 squared = 100, while 20 squared = 40 ... 300% more power for the planing 8.2 vs the slogging 7.5.

But only in that narrow, 8.2-only-planing window do we get excited about the 300%, as planing is more or less planing. I think your real question is "How much extra planing power does the 8.2 provide?". That's the 10% figure, and it applies only in a very narrow wind speed gap. In addition, there are penalties offsetting the slight planing power gain, such as rig cost and handling effort.

Besides, that 300% gain never was all that exciting anyway, as most of it goes to overcoming hull, fin, and sail drag due to higher speeds. Because of that, extra board speed gets really hard to come by once we're on a fast plane.

Mike \m/
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5891

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder when was the last time that isobars sailed an 8m+ sized sail. If the truth were told, it was very long ago, if ever.
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rgomez



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you guys a 7.5 would be ideal in giving me maximum power with a minimum budget...I'm sure with a right fin combination, correct stance and loads of pumping...I probably would go as fast as an 8m

A Cpl of questions though...since I've not gotten planning much i'm still kind of a newbie in some areas and I havent found any information about this online..

1. If I pump my board to plane, does my board stay on a plane after I stop pumping? or do I need to regularly pump it?

2. When im in the harness...do I need to sheet in with my hand so my body position?

Thanks Smile
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would bet that with your 5.5 and a good 7.5 you could cover 80-90% of your sailing days.

We all have combos that work most of the time. Being early in the curve can be frustrating when there is so much info and opinions,

Getting planing is the essence of the sport for sure, but buying gear that's affordable and fits your right now is most important.

I really like the range of the older longboards(equipe etc.) I'd say a good longboard and 120lt freeride + your 5.5 and a 7.5 would set you up fairly well.

I'm speaking from 35yrs in the sport with sails ranging from 3.7 to 9.5 my 6.0 and my 7.2 gets the most use.

Mostly, you need time on the water.

Just have fun with it!
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is kind of a loaded question. Yes, you can pump onto a plane even when there is not enough wind to stay on a plane. If you want to see it done watch an Olympic windsurf race, not what you want to be doing. The secret is to know when there is enough wind to stay on a plane once you get there.

You will be on flat water with a large sail so your pumping will be done out of the harness. Once on a plane and hooked in try not to use your back hand to sheet in as in light winds it is easy to overpower the sail and stall out. With large sails on flat water after I have pumped onto a plane & hooked in I will take my back hand off & let the sail pull me forward using only the harness to sheet in. This will works best if your harness lines are trimmed slightly forward of the CE.

Here is a method to check if there is enough wind to stay on a plane. With your weight, a 7.5 and your board you donít need white caps to get planing, just look for dark ripples on the water. When you see a gust coming hand very low from the boom and when you feel the pressure of the wind in the sail start to extend your legs. If you can extend your body over the water & feel the board accelerate and on the verge of planing than there is enough wind to keep you on a plane. If you canít extend your legs and push your body out over the water there is probably not enough wind to keep you on a plane.

Coachg
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